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Thread: Seeking 870 SBS advice. 12-14"

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by TriumphRat675 View Post
    Don't mean to derail your thread, but I have in my possession both a 16" AR and an 11.5" AR, am familiar with the NFA, the CFR, and the misconceptions and foul-ups that are common among people trying to do an end-run around their local CLEO with trusts, LLC's, and etc., with or without the advice of counsel.

    My considered opinion is that for the vast majority of ordinary citizens, unless they live in an enlightened locale where they can own an NFA item personally, whatever purported performance advantage NFA firearms provide over and above non-NFA firearms is not worth the administrative hassle or potential criminal consequences, to the extent that I advise clients against doing it. NFA toys are fun to have and definitely make you the cool guy at the range, but I don't see their benefits exceeding their actual and potential cost.

    That is my opinion only and YMMV.

    You have no idea what you are talking about.
    "Not every thing on Earth requires an aftermarket upgrade." demigod/markm

  2. #22
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    I know exactly what I'm talking about.

    Name one thing you can do with an SBR or SBS that you can't accomplish with a non-NFA firearm AND that is absolutely necessary to your exciting life as a keyborne commando.

    Now factor in administrative headaches, tax and tax stamps, storage requirements, fooling with ATF bureaucracy, legalities of a trust in your jurisdiction, the fiduciary duties to your trust's beneficiaries - which include not diminishing the value of trust assets by, say, using them - which you may or may not be able to wire around depending on your state laws...for what gain? Is it worth the hassle to you? Ok, drive on. I'll set up the trust and walk you through the process.

    At the end of the day if you give it some thought it's not half as bad as doing your taxes, but if you're the type to go to the range once a year then what is the point. And it seems like a lot of people with an interest in NFA firearms don't want to be bothered to think about it.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by TriumphRat675 View Post
    I know exactly what I'm talking about.

    Name one thing you can do with an SBR or SBS that you can't accomplish with a non-NFA firearm AND that is absolutely necessary to your exciting life as a keyborne commando.

    Now factor in administrative headaches, tax and tax stamps, storage requirements, fooling with ATF bureaucracy, legalities of a trust in your jurisdiction, the fiduciary duties to your trust's beneficiaries - which include not diminishing the value of trust assets by, say, using them - which you may or may not be able to wire around depending on your state laws...for what gain? Is it worth the hassle to you? Ok, drive on. I'll set up the trust and walk you through the process.

    At the end of the day if you give it some thought it's not half as bad as doing your taxes, but if you're the type to go to the range once a year then what is the point. And it seems like a lot of people with an interest in NFA firearms don't want to be bothered to think about it.
    It may not be worth the cost to YOU... Doesn't mean that we see it that way.
    Before you suggest that licensing, background checks, or other restrictions for the 2nd Amendment are reasonable... Apply those same ideas to the 1st and 4th Amendments. Then tell me how reasonable they are.

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    You're absolutely right. It's totally subjective.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by TriumphRat675 View Post
    I know exactly what I'm talking about.

    Name one thing you can do with an SBR or SBS that you can't accomplish with a non-NFA firearm AND that is absolutely necessary to your exciting life as a keyborne commando.

    Now factor in administrative headaches, tax and tax stamps, storage requirements, fooling with ATF bureaucracy, legalities of a trust in your jurisdiction, the fiduciary duties to your trust's beneficiaries - which include not diminishing the value of trust assets by, say, using them - which you may or may not be able to wire around depending on your state laws...for what gain? Is it worth the hassle to you? Ok, drive on. I'll set up the trust and walk you through the process.

    At the end of the day if you give it some thought it's not half as bad as doing your taxes, but if you're the type to go to the range once a year then what is the point. And it seems like a lot of people with an interest in NFA firearms don't want to be bothered to think about it.

    This post is a perfect example of what I talk about on here all the time.

    Someone telling people who own six, seven, or more figures worth of firearms how shit is going to roll.
    Last edited by scottryan; 11-03-12 at 22:33.
    "Not every thing on Earth requires an aftermarket upgrade." demigod/markm

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottryan View Post
    This post is a perfect example of what I talk about on here all the time.

    Someone telling people who own six, seven, or more figures worth of firearms how shit is going to roll.
    I always thought the majority of what you talked about on here consisted of trolling and being wrong in the technical forums.

    Re-read my posts and try to figure out if the people I am referring to are serious collectors or first time dilettantes.

    If you need assistance feel free to PM me.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by TriumphRat675 View Post
    It's true that a trust has other benefits which have been hashed to death around here, chiefly flexibility and the ability of more than one person to use the NFA firearm, but it is also less convenient to set up and imposes fiduciary duties and other obligations on the trustee that most people ignore.
    Right now, I'm about 70 miles from Iran, and I just set up yet another NFA trust. There is no way I could have gotten fingerprints or photographs where I am. A trust is in every way better and more convenient than an individual transfer, especially if you leave the douche nozzle lawyers out of the process. The hardest part becomes writing the check.

    As to the original post, to me, shotguns are good for two things, duck hunting and breaching, and I don't duck hunt. Ok, three, if you count making me giggle.

    To solve the 'I don't know what size to make my SBS' question, use a Mossberg. Unlike the 870, the magazine tube is threaded, and removable. You can swap entire front ends out, from Serbu sized super-shorties, to full sized fouling barrels. One tax stamp, any size gun.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by eodinert View Post
    To solve the 'I don't know what size to make my SBS' question, use a Mossberg. Unlike the 870, the magazine tube is threaded, and removable. You can swap entire front ends out, from Serbu sized super-shorties, to full sized fouling barrels. One tax stamp, any size gun.
    Thanks for your service.

    But you kind of ruined my plans here! I was not aware the 870's pump assembly was soldered in place. I had thought it would be possible to get a short throw pump and 10" barrel ala the MCS parts. Apparently not possible. I can't justify the SBS stamp if I can only run one single configuration. If the pump assembly was adjustable like the Mossberg, I could run a 10" birdshead and 14" SBS which would be perfect in terms of options. It "might" be possible to do an 870 with the MCS assembly and run 10" and 14" barrel, but doesn't seem possible to do with a field stock so, I'm not sure I want to go that route. I hate the function of ammo changeovers on the Mossberg, so those are out too.

    Instead it seems like I'll probably hang out with an 18" 870 and just live with that. If I suppose I could cut down a sxs to 18" for fun and a gun that's 6" shorter than the 870 but has obvious limitations too.

    Plans snuffed. Oh well. Thanks everyone for the help.

  9. #29
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    The 870 mag tube is threaded. That is how I take my barrel off for cleaning/swapping to a longer barrel anyway.......

    The mag tube to the receiver is not threaded........so you can't just screw it off to swap magazine tube length, but you can certainly run 12, 13, 14, 18, 24" barrels on it.

    I also had the short barrel threaded to accept Rem chokes, and use a choke/stand-off on the little guy. I elected to use a 12" for SBS purposes, though I don't know that I would notice a difference in mobility with a 14.



    My decision for the SBS was solely because I can. I had the gun, the money, and the time to wait. And 6 other shotguns to fill in where I need a shotgun for shotgun purposes. Just the same, it will shoot slugs on par with the 18.5" barrel, and 00 on par with any of the others in the safe.

  10. #30
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    To clarify my original post, on an 870, the mag tube is silver soldered into the receiver, Mossberg threads them, and screws them in. If you want to go shorter than standard on an 870, it's a permanent modification. On Mossberg 500 or 590, you can go from a Serbu Super Shorty sized 10 incher that requires a short magazine tube, all the way up to an 8 round full sized magazine tube without any permanent modifications to the receiver or magazine tube.

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