Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst ... 3456 LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 54

Thread: Steyr is making a piston AR-15 now.

  1. #41
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    AZ
    Posts
    27,214
    Feedback Score
    14 (100%)
    Even if somehow Steyr nailed the piston idea... I think it'd be an uphill battle to get it wide acceptance after all the other designs which have gone nowhere exciting.
    "You people have too much time on your hands." - scottryan

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    1,476
    Feedback Score
    0
    Are they given a chance to go somewhere exciting?

    A natural human instinct is to seek advice from people more knowledgeable than themselves (well, most people do). If the default reply to piston AR advice is "it sucks!", well....kinda limits the exposure and fielding the system will get.

    There are many knowledgeable people on this board, and I have learnt loads myself from reading and participating in discussions. I'm sure many lurkers heed the advice of the more vocal people on this board, even if that group does not have personal experience with the system they are critiquing.

    I am all for giving a weapon system a bad review based on personal experience. And you guys really have a luxury problem, when it comes to AR's. Here in Norway, there are two brands legal for purchase (without a serious amount of paperwork and wait time); Bushmaster and DPMS.....and the HK MR223 and 308. So for me, based on what I have read about DPMS and BH here and on LF, they are not tempting options, although I am confident in my ability to keep them running reliably. That leaves the MR223, a system I am familiar with and like very much. The only issue is that it costs an arm and a leg (4000$ for the rifle only ).

    My point....I like guns, of all kinds.....in my view it is better to embrace and empower people who are trying new ideas (unless they are totally retarded like double-barreled AR's), rather than just shutting them down.

    Who knows, maybe one day the pinnacle of the AR platform will be reached, and people will "conclude" that the optimal setup for the system is the DI/internal piston/whatever system, and that money would be better spent trying to develop new systems not based on the AR-15 platform.
    It's not about surviving, it's about winning!

  3. #43
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    3,095
    Feedback Score
    7 (89%)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arctic1 View Post
    Can't we just make a sticky thread, "The huge piston AR bashing thread" for example, where the people who feel the need to bash piston AR designs can blow off some steam every now and then? Instead of having every thread regarding a new product accumulating a shitload of posts, saying the following ad nauseum:

    -Piston AR's are stupid/suck/<insert adjective here> bla bla bla
    -All guns need lube, even pistons...bla bla bla
    -Temperature differences between DI and piston is minute....bla bla bla

    Everbody knows that the oprod design incorporated to the AR platform is viewed as unnecessary, with little to no benefit and a lack of industry standard, here on M4C. But honestly, having this happen in every god damn thread is getting quite old and reminiscent of other less professional boards.

    Based on all of the threads on this board about DI AR's experiencing problems, one could draw some pretty damning conclusions about that system as well. But, as we all know, most problems stem from user error/incompetence, lower quality parts, worn or damaged parts, bad ammunition etc. Not the operating system.

    It's getting ridiculous.
    The lube part is relevent to this thread because Steyr themselves are saying the system does not need lube and runs cool enough you cantouch the bolt.

    Both are innacuracies and pertain to this rifle.
    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    Colt builds War Horses, not show ponies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    This is 2012. The world is going to end this December and people are still trying to debate the merits of piece of shit, cost cutting crap AR's. Really?

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    7,469
    Feedback Score
    12 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arctic1 View Post
    Are they given a chance to go somewhere exciting?

    A natural human instinct is to seek advice from people more knowledgeable than themselves (well, most people do). If the default reply to piston AR advice is "it sucks!", well....kinda limits the exposure and fielding the system will get.

    There are many knowledgeable people on this board, and I have learnt loads myself from reading and participating in discussions. I'm sure many lurkers heed the advice of the more vocal people on this board, even if that group does not have personal experience with the system they are critiquing.

    I am all for giving a weapon system a bad review based on personal experience. And you guys really have a luxury problem, when it comes to AR's. Here in Norway, there are two brands legal for purchase (without a serious amount of paperwork and wait time); Bushmaster and DPMS.....and the HK MR223 and 308. So for me, based on what I have read about DPMS and BH here and on LF, they are not tempting options, although I am confident in my ability to keep them running reliably. That leaves the MR223, a system I am familiar with and like very much. The only issue is that it costs an arm and a leg (4000$ for the rifle only ).

    My point....I like guns, of all kinds.....in my view it is better to embrace and empower people who are trying new ideas (unless they are totally retarded like double-barreled AR's), rather than just shutting them down.

    Who knows, maybe one day the pinnacle of the AR platform will be reached, and people will "conclude" that the optimal setup for the system is the DI/internal piston/whatever system, and that money would be better spent trying to develop new systems not based on the AR-15 platform.
    Honestly, I'd much rather see DI ARs come with a certificate that counts towards a first training class. I would rather see people training rather than trying new toys. Training teaches responsibility with firearms and proficiency. It helps our gun rights movement.

    Yeah, new shit is cool. But highly unnecessary in the US for the most part. If good piston guns cost less than DI guns; say if the prices were reversed, I'd be advocating piston guns.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    1,476
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by sinlessorrow View Post
    The lube part is relevent to this thread because Steyr themselves are saying the system does not need lube and runs cool enough you cantouch the bolt.

    Both are innacuracies and pertain to this rifle.

    Steyr says? Where?

    The post you are referring to is not made by Steyr, but misrepresented as such. The post is copied from user Hagen77 on LF, who is an AD Austrian soldier, not an emplyee of Steyr.

    They are also looking into it as an option, not saying it is feasible. My point still stands, you have a tendency to go overboard on the whole "piston guns need lube too" argument, on other boards.

    You also opted to ignore the data I provided you, but chose to rely on a test done by a random guy using a cheap Wal-mart thermometer, regarding the heat issue.

    This thread on LF is one of the more objective I have read in regards to temp differences (it also compares the AR to a SCAR, not a piston AR althoug one is used as a comparison sample), and opinion is that you are downplaying the difference in temperature. Argue the effects, in terms of lubricant burning off and parts wear, all day, but the temps ARE higher in a DI gun:

    http://lightfighter.net/eve/forums/a...4997#207104997

    Now, I'll get off my soapbox and hopefully the thread can be about the Steyr piston AR, and not piston vs. DI again.
    Last edited by Arctic1; 11-28-12 at 12:47.
    It's not about surviving, it's about winning!

  6. #46
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    3,095
    Feedback Score
    7 (89%)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arctic1 View Post
    Steyr says? Where?

    The post you are referring to is not made by Steyr, but misrepresented as such. The post is copied from user Hagen77 on LF, who is an AD Austrian soldier, not an emplyee of Steyr.

    They are also looking into it as an option, not saying it is feasible. My point still stands, you have a tendency to go overboard on the whole "piston guns need lube too" argument, on other boards.

    You also opted to ignore the data I provided you, but chose to rely on a test done by a random guy using a cheap Wal-mart thermometer, regarding the heat issue.

    This thread on LF is one of the more objective I have read in regards to temp differences (it also compares the AR to a SCAR, not a piston AR althoug one is used as a comparison sample), and opinion is that you are downplaying the difference in temperature. Argue the effects, in terms of lubricant burning off and parts wear, all day, but the temps ARE higher in a DI gun:

    http://lightfighter.net/eve/forums/a...4997#207104997

    Now, I'll get off my soapbox and hopefully the thread can be about the Steyr piston AR, and not piston vs. DI again.
    I never said the temps were different. I use SLIP2000EWL with a flash point of 550*F, needless to say it doesnt burn off.

    What I have said and will continue to say, it is also what I have said to you in PM when you questioned me is that while the temp are slightly higher in a DI system they are not so high as to be detrimental, nor do they change the composition of the steel. Also the bolt face is still cool enough to hold(something piston companies love to talk about).

    If C158 cannot withstand 180*F idk what to think.

    And I though the person saying it did not need lube worked for Steyr so thats my bad.
    Last edited by sinlessorrow; 11-28-12 at 13:05.
    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    Colt builds War Horses, not show ponies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    This is 2012. The world is going to end this December and people are still trying to debate the merits of piece of shit, cost cutting crap AR's. Really?

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    5,795
    Feedback Score
    0
    It looks like a very promising design and concept. I for one, am glad to see more innovative designs coming out for the AR platform. If it proves to be as reliable as 'high end' DI and Piston ARs currently available, I'd sell all my ARs and be all over it.
    For God and the soldier we adore, In time of danger, not before! The danger passed, and all things righted, God is forgotten and the soldier slighted." - Rudyard Kipling

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    1,476
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Littlelebowski View Post
    Honestly, I'd much rather see DI ARs come with a certificate that counts towards a first training class. I would rather see people training rather than trying new toys. Training teaches responsibility with firearms and proficiency. It helps our gun rights movement.

    Yeah, new shit is cool. But highly unnecessary in the US for the most part. If good piston guns cost less than DI guns; say if the prices were reversed, I'd be advocating piston guns.
    Sure, I understand that view. And I am not on a crusade to convert people from DI to pistons....just tired of every thread on a new system using pistons, or advice about piston being turned into a bash fest.
    Last edited by Arctic1; 11-28-12 at 13:09.
    It's not about surviving, it's about winning!

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    140
    Feedback Score
    4 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arctic1 View Post
    For a unit utilizing an armory concept, swapping barrels based on METT-TC analysis and re-zero before mission launch
    Hello Artic1,
    I remember the METT-T acronym from my military days as mission, equipment, time, terrain and troops available. I don't remember the C, maybe out was added after my ETS, I'll guess climate...

    From my mobile phone

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    1,476
    Feedback Score
    0
    Civilian considerations
    It's not about surviving, it's about winning!

Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst ... 3456 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •