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Thread: How thick should AR steel plate be for targets?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by markm View Post
    You want to keep your gongs nice and smooth like this one!

    One of the former ranges I used to shoot at had some plates like that.

    I later saw one of these plates after they took it down, it looked like Swiss cheese. BIG holes too. That explained all my mysterious misses.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wake27 View Post
    193 is worse than 855? Even the green tip with penetrator stuff? And how does 1/2" compare?
    Yup.
    Speed is the name of the game when it comes to steel penetration, unless you step up to a large, heavy penetrator as found in M995. The "penetrator" in M855 is laughable, and really only serves to provide a bit more extra spall to deal with when shooting at steel.

    1/2" steel is fine, but heavier than needed and produces even less movement and ring than 3/8".
    Jack Leuba
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    Knight's Armament Company
    jleuba@knightarmco.com

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failure2Stop View Post
    Yup.
    Speed is the name of the game when it comes to steel penetration, unless you step up to a large, heavy penetrator as found in M995. The "penetrator" in M855 is laughable, and really only serves to provide a bit more extra spall to deal with when shooting at steel.

    1/2" steel is fine, but heavier than needed and produces even less movement and ring than 3/8".
    And all this time I've been avoiding M855... I assume the M193 has higher velocity because of the lighter weight? Obviously I'm not well-read in most ballistics yet. And does the 1/2" have any benefits that make it worth while? Better longevity or more durability at closer range, etc?

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wake27 View Post
    And all this time I've been avoiding M855... I assume the M193 has higher velocity because of the lighter weight? Obviously I'm not well-read in most ballistics yet. And does the 1/2" have any benefits that make it worth while? Better longevity or more durability at closer range, etc?
    The biggest difference that I have seen in steel targets is in manufacturer quality. I trust companies like MGM, Tac-Strike, and Porta-Target, having seen tens if not hundreds of thousands of rounds pushed into them at responsible distances of several calibers. I do not trust random steel distributors' offerings.

    Frankly, I have not seen sufficient quantities of 1/2" steel in direct comparison to 1/4" or 3/8" to offer any insight beyond that already given. Once again, longevity is not based on perforation, but rather deformation of the front face, and once the front face is severely pitted the target should be moved to long(ish) range (100 meters or greater), and shot until it crumbles.
    Jack Leuba
    Director, Military and Government Sales
    Knight's Armament Company
    jleuba@knightarmco.com

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wake27 View Post
    And all this time I've been avoiding M855... I assume the M193 has higher velocity because of the lighter weight?
    It's a physics thing, and your assumptions are correct in this particular case.

    Kinetic energy at point of impact is the key.

    Both rounds fired on a level line will hit the ground at the same time, M855 significantly farther out, even though M193 got to the 1/3 mark significantly sooner. Velocity & weight factored together equals the amount of force transmitted to the target.

    A properly worded search phrase will turn up more than you wanted to know about the subject on these two particular rounds.

    3/8" AR is probably the better plan for weight and cost. If I can get a slight dome to the face, it should increase the longevity. Maybe even a little hammer treatment.
    Sticks

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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failure2Stop View Post
    The biggest difference that I have seen in steel targets is in manufacturer quality. I trust companies like MGM, Tac-Strike, and Porta-Target, having seen tens if not hundreds of thousands of rounds pushed into them at responsible distances of several calibers. I do not trust random steel distributors' offerings.

    Frankly, I have not seen sufficient quantities of 1/2" steel in direct comparison to 1/4" or 3/8" to offer any insight beyond that already given. Once again, longevity is not based on perforation, but rather deformation of the front face, and once the front face is severely pitted the target should be moved to long(ish) range (100 meters or greater), and shot until it crumbles.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    It's a physics thing, and your assumptions are correct in this particular case.

    Kinetic energy at point of impact is the key.

    Both rounds fired on a level line will hit the ground at the same time, M855 significantly farther out, even though M193 got to the 1/3 mark significantly sooner. Velocity & weight factored together equals the amount of force transmitted to the target.

    A properly worded search phrase will turn up more than you wanted to know about the subject on these two particular rounds.

    3/8" AR is probably the better plan for weight and cost. If I can get a slight dome to the face, it should increase the longevity. Maybe even a little hammer treatment.
    I know its all around here, just haven't had time to get to that stuff yet. Thanks guys.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by markm View Post
    But stuff like PMC bronze which is mild isn't too bad.
    I keep hearing this about PMC. I've consistently chronographed Bronze 55grain consistently at 2880 FPS from my 16 inch Noveske. How are we defining "mild"?



    Quote Originally Posted by Failure2Stop View Post

    1/2" steel is fine, but heavier than needed and produces even less movement and ring than 3/8".
    Here's a magazine of 55 gr PMC Bronze out of my 11.5 SBR (2450 FPS) from about 35 yards on a 1/2 inch AR500 gong.

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vtpGrPpxIEA

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hmac View Post
    I keep hearing this about PMC. I've consistently chronographed Bronze 55grain consistently at 2880 FPS from my 16 inch Noveske. How are we defining "mild"?
    That's pretty good velocity. I got not much more than that from a 20" Hbar a while back.

    It's possible they've changed the load... or the Noveske just shoots a faster bullet compared to a USGI barrel.
    "You people have too much time on your hands." - scottryan

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by markm View Post
    We shoot them much closer than that. And the slanted steel we'll shot as clost as 10 yards.
    I have a bullet in my leg from shooting at plates from 30 feet...it's all fun till someone gets shot
    “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” W. Churchill

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hmac View Post
    Here's a magazine of 55 gr PMC Bronze out of my 11.5 SBR (2450 FPS) from about 35 yards on a 1/2 inch AR500 gong.
    It's more of an "at distance" thing, as mentioned by markm earlier.
    At 200 yards they are all fine, gets rough by the time you get to 500.
    Jack Leuba
    Director, Military and Government Sales
    Knight's Armament Company
    jleuba@knightarmco.com

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