Helping family buy firearms

[Cazwell]

Not sure where to put this. Did not want to post in both Handgun and AR forums. Sorry for the length.

background:

My mom dropped by my house and asked if I would help her buys some guns for self defense. They are not “gun people” in that they are not on any forums, don’t do any research, are not aware of any current trends, quality control issues or new to market offerings. They target shoot at ground hogs on their Wyoming property when they are up there in the summer and my mom has done some deer hunting with a .243 off and on and a little skeet/trap shooting when she was much younger.

They are not handgun shooters. When the old man died of cancer, I bought my mom a youth model .20 gauge (she’s little and not very strong) and a S&W 642 (if I remember right) for her purse (that’s all she would do for carry) took her out a few times to ensure she at least understood the manual of arms for each.

She has remarried to a nice guy who has the ability to put a little coin into some guns/training and emergency preparedness items and they have decided to add some firearms, ammo, mags and hopefully some training.

She dropped by the house yesterday and said “what handguns and rifles should we get” I lol’d and tried getting into some real info and she said “here is a check for 3 grand, we could spend a little more if we have to, but not a lot. Get us two matching SD pistols and two matching SD rifles and a bunch of mags. Thanks honey" and she left.

This is essentially why they are buying;

- General SD
- SD in a more pervasive environment such as natural disaster and/or economic crash etc
- Buying before any potential change to gun legislation (so interested in things that may become more difficult to obtain, hence the interest in high cap mags, AR’s/AK’s and mags etc)

Those are the driving factors.

In general terms what they want out of a firearm;

-Reliable/durable
-Low maintenance/easy maintenance (They need weapons they can treat like their lawn-mower)
-Commonality between what each will have, readily available parts/ubiquitous parts/ammo/mags etc
-Accuracy would be lower on the list
-NO dealership – private party sale only

That’s the general thrust of what they want out of firearms

Handgun specific concerns;

My mom wants a subcompact single stack for on-person carry. She really likes my wife's Kahr PM9. Her brother recommended she pick up a Ruger LC9.

They want the manual of arms and ergonomics/point-ability of her single stack to be as similar as possible to the double stack handguns they each buy.

They would like the double stacks they buy to be large enough to shoot well and train with and small enough for him to carry.

Rifle specific concerns:

Same as all points made above. Simple, durable, low maintenance, within budget, likely to retain or increase in value should gun politics and legislation change post election and applicable to a broad type of SD situations from home invasion to the walking dead.
I would appreciate anyone’s feedback, especially on nuances regarding shootablilty, ergonomics and maintenance.

My thoughts on handguns;

There is used Kahr CM9 with CT laser grip and 4 mags locally for a decent price. Considering that for her on-person carry single stack.
Pick up two G 19’s and a pile of mags (maybe M&P’s) as their primary training/carry etc. handguns.

Thoughts? Would the M&P be more ergonomically similar to the Kahr? I know the Kahrs trigger pulls is kind of on its own.

My thoughts on rifles –

This is where I’m a little less sure. He has a mini 14 that he likes, and he just wants to buy a second. I’ve never owned one but have heard far ranging reports as to reliability and durability.

She wants to the sell the mini and consolidate on AK’s. She likes that they are no-brainer easy, low maintenance, relatively cheap.

They are open to AR’s but they honestly will do little to know maintenance, and the more quality AR’s price them out of the $3000-$3500 for everything range (not including classes, separate budget).

I could probably purchase AR’s and stay under the threshold if I went with cheaper AR's.

So, I’m going to be doing a lot of backpage.com searching (tons of guns out here in AZ) some local boards etc.

3ki ish operating budget. Thoughts?

[Texas42]

You can get a good AR for Like $1100. A great AR for $1500. My dream AR for probably $2000. I don't see where you get $3000.

[Cazwell]

You can get a good AR for Like $1100. A great AR for $1500. My dream AR for probably $2000. I don't see where you get $3000.

3k TOTAL my friend, for everything.

One CM9 w/CT laser grips/ 4 mags and holster - $500
Two G19's and 2 mags each - $500 each = $1000
Extra mags and holsters - $200 - $500

Total = $1700 - $2000

And we haven't even started on rifles yet... 3k comes pretty fast.

[lethal dose]

For that budget and what they'll do, you could consider the s&w shield in 9 mm and that would cover purse carry and sd. At $450 each, you'd be at $900. For rifles, the s&w sport is the most price appropriate budget AR. It utilizes 4140 for the barrel, but so does DPMS, RRA, stag, bushmaster, etc. At $650 shipped, it can't be beat. If round count isn't wicked high and they want to take a few courses and stay on their game, the sport will serve well. So far, $2200. $800 will get you an extra p mag for each rifle (comes with one), an extra mag for each pistol, a sling for each rifle, 1000 rounds of rifle ammo, and 2000 rounds of pistol ammo. Figure $65/holster extra. Not bad.

Does it all need to be purchased at once?

[lethal dose]

Plus, with s&w, you have THE BEST customer service available.

[Ready.Fire.Aim]

If they aren't gun people, treat guns like lawnmowers, and are not going to practice then consider keeping it very simple.

For a pistol I suggest a revolver such as .38 S &W J frame for carry and home defense. I like the CT laser grips. If it is loaded, pull the trigger and it goes bang.

For a rifle, bolt gun with a detachable magazine. Savage .308 comes to mind. A cheap 1 x4 or 3x9 scope.

Both of these types can be found used in good condition in many different brands. All at a reasonable price.

Spend the extra cash stocking up on ammo.

Most people grasp the concept of revolvers and bolt actions. Auto loaders takes a higher commitment to learn and maintain.

I own a large pile of firearms. Yet my wife's home defense is a Savage single shot .410 with a elastic butt pad holding nine buckshot shells. It was mine as a kid and it is what she is proficient and comfortable with. She kills snakes frequently with it using birdshot and keeps it on her side of the bed for SD. At least she is armed so I stopped trying to convince her to learn to shoot AR and pistols--just kept it simple.

RFA

[juliomorris]

S&W MP 9mm
Shield 9mm
2 good Ar's sell the mini.

[falcon5]

S&W MP 9mm
Shield 9mm
2 good Ar's sell the mini.

My leaning as well.

[Beat Trash]

S&W MP 9mm
Shield 9mm
2 good Ar's sell the mini.

This was my thought as well.

I was lucky enough to buy my Shield less than a week after they were introduced. They're a great gun for their intended purpose.

The only negative thing about the Shield is it's hard to find a 9mm currently. Good luck finding one that is for sale by a private owner.

Kahr's quality appear to be hit or miss. My PM9 dates back past 2005. It's reliable. But that's a sample of one. Some have had issues.

Pistols: Glock 19's or M&P9's Possibly a M&P9c, if the new husband feels the need for slightly smaller, or if he's smaller in stature. At least three magazines per gun.

A pair of matching AR's and a crash course on basic lube and maintenance.

Be the good son and visit your mother every so often. Bring a cleaning kit along for the visit and clean and lube their guns while you're there. Maybe leave some 5.56mm and 9mm ammunition while you're at it.

Having to buy all of these form a private individual limits you to what is available locally and used. This may limit your AR selection.

You're mother is trusting you to make an informed decision. Glad you are taking this seriously enough to do some research first. Good luck.

[PA PATRIOT]

Lets look at the people who are going to be using these firearms,

"Mom" (she’s little and not very strong)

"Step Dad" No Physical condition given.

Both are not "Gun People" past gun use "a little hunting"

Both will treat their firearms like "Lawn Mowers"

Neither cared to shop around a bit to see what style or type of firearm may interest them and just want the OP to buy something with cash they supplied.

NO dealership – private party sale only, Maybe with a shotgun or Rifle depending on state but the handguns will need paperwork no matter were you buy them.
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Your mothers and step dads physical conditions are only going to deteriorate with age as this is a fact of life so I would suggest since it appears they will need a very simple manual arms, very low maintenance with point and pull simplicity a set of Stainless steel .38/.357 revolvers is the best way to go. I have seen to many older folk lose the ability to use a pistol due to the loss of strength, arthritis which can cause the condition of not being able to hold the pistol strongly enough were it would not cycle properly (Limp Wristing) or even rack the slide.

And since it appears these firearms will never get any real use or maintenance on a regular basis the long gun should be kept as simple as possible also. There I would suggest matching pair 20ga pump shotguns or a pair of stainless steel 16" barreled lever guns in .38/.357 or both for the funds available. The actions of all involved can be smoothed out by a decent smith and they would be the most simple multi shot platforms to use other then a bolt or single shot.

If you keep it simple, easy to operate, low maintenance, low recoil these would be the traits in a firearm which would really serve your mom and step dad the best Thu their golden years and buying a bunch of guns that are not really practical to their coming needs is a dis-service and a waste of money.