FMJ, the best barrier blind handgun load?

[evsmech]

I read a lot here about the different loads and how they interact with barriers such as auto glass and sheetmetal and how bullet designers and manufacturers strive to build better barrier blind loads by bonding their bullets or whatever else they do to better retain terminal ballistic capabilities through out tough barriers. Would it not reason that Full Metal Jacket would be the best option for handguns trying to defeat tough barriers that may otherwise stop hollow point rounds? Is there any logic to this notion?

Don't misunderstand me here, I carry Speer 230gr Gold Dots in my .45 and Federal 147gr HST's in my Glock 19 and wouldn't trade these loads for anything. I just wonder if throwing an extra mag of ball ammo in the truck wouldn't maybe have some degree of practicality for special situations.

[Kain]

I don't think FMJ loading would exactly be an advantage in this day an age with the loads that are out there. I remember reading something where a number of 9mm loads were tested shooting through glass and car bodies and the 124gr NATO loading consistently preformed worst breaking apart while penetrating while the majority of the known defensive loads stayed together and penetrated farther into the car.

[481]

I read a lot here about the different loads and how they interact with barriers such as auto glass and sheetmetal and how bullet designers and manufacturers strive to build better barrier blind loads by bonding their bullets or whatever else they do to better retain terminal ballistic capabilities through out tough barriers. Would it not reason that Full Metal Jacket would be the best option for handguns trying to defeat tough barriers that may otherwise stop hollow point rounds? Is there any logic to this notion?

Don't misunderstand me here, I carry Speer 230gr Gold Dots in my .45 and Federal 147gr HST's in my Glock 19 and wouldn't trade these loads for anything. I just wonder if throwing an extra mag of ball ammo in the truck wouldn't maybe have some degree of practicality for special situations.

I've often wondered the same thing when it comes to punching through hard, thin barriers like sheet metal.

In Chapter 8 of Quantitative Ammunition Selection (check out the little blurb about Chapter 8 at the bottom of the linked page), there's a mathematical model that can be used to calculate the maximum thickness of a cold-rolled mild steel sheet that a bullet can pass through.

The model is stated to apply to both JHPs and FMJs (as both were used to develop the model) since the expansion cavity of JHPs tends to fold in upon itself making the JHPs act like an FMJ.

Based upon what I've learned, I doubt that there is much difference in how FMJs and JHPs perform against hard barriers, so an extra magazine of FMJs might not be a bad idea.

More ammo is always a good thing.

[WS6]

I read a lot here about the different loads and how they interact with barriers such as auto glass and sheetmetal and how bullet designers and manufacturers strive to build better barrier blind loads by bonding their bullets or whatever else they do to better retain terminal ballistic capabilities through out tough barriers. Would it not reason that Full Metal Jacket would be the best option for handguns trying to defeat tough barriers that may otherwise stop hollow point rounds? Is there any logic to this notion?

Don't misunderstand me here, I carry Speer 230gr Gold Dots in my .45 and Federal 147gr HST's in my Glock 19 and wouldn't trade these loads for anything. I just wonder if throwing an extra mag of ball ammo in the truck wouldn't maybe have some degree of practicality for special situations.

I put a lot of rounds through a windshield this week-end at a Viking Tactics course. We shot from both inside the car out, and outside the car in. Shooting 9mm FMJ from inside the car through the windshield, it was apparent that hits could not be made with ANY degree of reliability, even on targets just at 5-10 yards in front of the vehicle. The best solution was a rapid volley of shots at the target primarily to create a hole, and then fire through that hole.

Noone was able to put lead on target reliably through a windshield. The same held true for the M4's on 36 yard steel IPSC targets. FMJ fragmented and hit the berm all around the targets, my 64gr bonded held together and kicked up a lot more dust than the M193, but still missed the target every time. Again, fire 1-2 rounds at the target, and cram the muzzle through the glass. Yes, my M4 got scratched up (glass is HARD!), but that's what it was made for. (Firing inside of a small BMW through its windshield along side a guy in the passenger seat with a comp'ed gun SUCKS! btw. Glass goes everywhere.)

[Texas42]

That is cool.

Interesting info, too.

[S. Galbraith]

I read a lot here about the different loads and how they interact with barriers such as auto glass and sheetmetal and how bullet designers and manufacturers strive to build better barrier blind loads by bonding their bullets or whatever else they do to better retain terminal ballistic capabilities through out tough barriers. Would it not reason that Full Metal Jacket would be the best option for handguns trying to defeat tough barriers that may otherwise stop hollow point rounds? Is there any logic to this notion?

Don't misunderstand me here, I carry Speer 230gr Gold Dots in my .45 and Federal 147gr HST's in my Glock 19 and wouldn't trade these loads for anything. I just wonder if throwing an extra mag of ball ammo in the truck wouldn't maybe have some degree of practicality for special situations.

There's no point in using FMJ ammo for anything defensive. Most manufacturers swage soft lead alloy(less than 8 Brinell) into a copper alloy jacket. In general, it is a relatively fragile bullet when it comes to hard barrier penetration as soon as the bullet loses its jacket. Glass is much harder than lead or copper, and when the two substances collide at 1000fps the bullet is ground up. Bonded bullets are the best factory ammo you can buy now days if you want a good barrier defeater that still has good terminal effects. Even better, if you load your own, or can have someone load hardcast lead bullets for you they have the greatest overall durability. For practical purposes, you can use hardcast bullets of a 18 Brinell which is roughly double the core strength of many jacketed bullets on the market.

[DocGKR]

FMJ is NOT high on my list of projectiles for barrier penetration; the bonded loads tend to work better.

[WS6]

FMJ is NOT high on my list of projectiles for barrier penetration; the bonded loads tend to work better.

We did not shoot any bonded pistol ammo through the glass, what do you notice the difference is? Less angle of deflection? I have fired bonded ammunition through sheet metal, etc. and it "caved in" on itself. Still did no worse than FMJ could have done, and probably better, but I figure it would track a little truer as it deformed to meet the angle of the glass some rather than glancing as it met it as much.

[glen]

Interesting.

I was always of the impression that the deep penetration through soft targets exhibited by FMJ would translate to barrier blind performance (in at least the penetration aspect). It was surprising to see folks report them breaking up and fragmenting going through barriers.

[jstone]

Ws6 was the bonded load you were using the gold dots?