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Thread: Barrel Question for a new project ;17" rifle gas barrel

  1. #41
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    The ball milling Marvin Pitts does looks better than the Adco style.

    A barrel that has been fluted or milled will generally be more stiff than a barrel of the same weight. Heavier barrels regardless of if they have been fluted or milled will be more stiff.

    Stiffness equals accuracy.

    If accuracy is a concern, go heavier. There is also a pretty big cost consideration involved, which IMO is money better spent elsewhere.
    Last edited by bp7178; 11-21-12 at 19:49.

  2. #42
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    Buford,

    Contact Lothar-Walther with your idea. There are other companies that can do custom barrel profiling as well

    As I recall, there was thread discussing cutting chrome lined barrels. Don't worry about it. Guys have been cutting down CL barrels of various types with no trouble. If the CL flakes, it wasn't applied very well
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  3. #43
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    Personally I wouldn't do fluting/dimpling. A few of the accuracy nuts say fluting/dimpling after it's been rifled stresses the barrel too much and can *allegedly* deform the inside of the barrel by a slight amount, causing loss in accuracy. If it's a random chrome lined barrel then I'd be open to it, but if it's a premium barrel like Krieger then I would never consider it, personally.

    But anyway, if you're trying to find a way to get a 17" rifle gas barrel, why not just get someone to make it from a blank for you?

    Blanks:
    http://gmriflebarrel.com/barrelblank...y-barrel-blank
    (They have 1:8 as well)

    http://www.midwayusa.com/product/388...y-in-the-white

    If you want 1:7 from Shilen you can order direct from them for $165.

    And then someone like Compass Lake Engineering'll finish up the barrel for you
    http://www.compasslake.com/Price%20List.htm

    For $160 for a non-standard contour. I'm pretty sure CLE's down to do your idea but I'd ask first.


    Note that I'm recommending Chrome moly blanks because they have the same accuracy as a SS blank but take to meloniting better than SS (from what I've heard).


    Also, I attempted to do something like you're doing but a bit more out there; a 16" AR10 6.5 creedmoor barrel with a Noveske intermediate gas tube. I spoke to Brux barrels and they said they can do that if I provide the drawings; if they can do a request like that, then yours is definitely doable by Brux. Brux makes very nice cut rifled barrels that sees a fair amount of usage in benchrest shooting competitions. Note however, they're probably a bit more pricy, and there's a 20 week or so waiting period, but you ARE getting a top tier barrel comparable to the likes of Krieger for your money, so it's not wasted money IMO.
    Last edited by Hygienist; 11-21-12 at 19:59.

  4. #44
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    I know what it's like having an idea and wanting the project to turn out exactly like I envisioned it, but ...

    That hybrid Criterion bbl. at 18" looks perfect for certain projects I have in mind. I believe it will work for many applications, and I plan to revisit it. Thanks for the info.

    First, I better play with the FN 18" bbl that I still haven't used.
    'That whole effort was held together by sweat, shame, and a tiny bit of pride.' -- Son of Commander Paisley

  5. #45
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    Thank you gents! I'm going to chew over this info over thanskgiving.

    Now, somebody please school me on having a barrel melonited. Who does it? How much doe sit typically cost?

    I'm sure it has to be the LAST thing done to the barrel prior to installation (i.e. no machining afterward).

    I'm all ears.

  6. #46
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    Yes, for the love of god do meloniting as the absolute last thing you do to the barrel

    Smaller shops do meloniting for fairly cheaply.

    www.coalcreekarmory.com will do it for $50 last time I checked.
    www.wmdguns.com will do it for $75.

    Personally for a premium barrel I'd prefer to do it at a legit metals place. One place is http://blacknitride.com/ I myself emailed them back in June of this year and got this reply:
    "Minimum lot cost is $200. This will cover 1 full pistol or rifle. Or two rifle barrels. Turnaround time is 4-5 days. Both materials nitride fine but you will get better corrosion protection from the chrome moly barrel. So your total cost for the 2 barrels would be $200 plus shipping.

    Shade"

    (When he refers to both materials, that was me asking if stainless steel would be a bad candidate for nitriding.)


    MMI Trutec is another meloniter comes up a lot, but they don't do small orders anymore. Some quote off the internet did say this though:

    "So i emailed MMI and got this back
    On 03/09/2011
    quote:
    Mike Wooldridge to me
    We at Trutec are no longer doing individual orders. rlanier77@hotmail.com has taken over that account. His charge $75 a barrel plus $25.00 shipping fee ground. will not process actions.I think he can get them out 2-3 days. They will still ship for now to the mmi trutec plant 2609 north 12th ave. attention rodney paragould ar. 72450

    Please contact him for details"



    Here's a webpage that details one dude's experience with getting meloniting done:
    https://sites.google.com/site/freeba...lonite-and-qpq

    Based on that, if I wanted the absolute BEST melonite for my barrel I'd go with blacknitride.com due to this quote:

    "I asked them [www.blacknitride.com] if they knew of MMI, the answer was
    "Ya, sure, we built it and owned it till we sold it to TruTec" http://www.trutecind.com/contact_us.aspx
    So i asked if they do the same process.
    " The nitride is the same the prep work is different. We Ultra Sonic dip clean every gun that comes in the door to make sure they are 100% clean inside and out so we have no imperfections in the nitride.""

    ^^ But note that all these shops are doing the exact same Isonite QPQ process so... I don't think there's too much of a difference between the cheapest (coalcreek) and blacknitride.com.
    Last edited by Hygienist; 11-21-12 at 23:04.

  7. #47
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    Red face

    Outstanding answer!


    Quote Originally Posted by BufordTJustice View Post
    Sounds like you need to stop posting in my thread if you're going to refer to my experiment as "goofy".
    On topic:

    Cutting CL'd barrel isn't an issue. I had ADCO cut my 6920 barrel to 10.5" without issue. 1.5-2" groups at a hundred with MK262 with a semi crappy shooter. I've never heard of anyone having issues cutting a barrel that's CL'd if its been done by a reputable company. I recommend ADCO, SAW or Marvin Pitts for something like this.

    From all the researching I've done over the last year on ball millig I've never read or heard of an accurate barrel turning out inaccurate from ball milling. I have not researched anything on fluting. I'm particular to the milling for the strength and rigidity it adds to the barrel and the aesthetics. My recommendation for a person who does ball milling would be Marvin Pitts. If I'm not mistaken he has a patent on his milling. Well him or KAC...one of them.

    Have you considered a Douglas barrel for your project and having it dimpled? The 2 MK12s I have are lights out accurate. They shoot way better then I ever can.

  8. #48
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    I would not consider melonite unless I was going to hand lap the barrel. Like serious spend time on it and get it absolutely flawless.

    The company I occasionally consult for looked into it, they found that if the barrels had any microscopic sharp edges or burrs for manufacturing that after nitrocarborizing those burrs would be there forever and now slightly accentuated and compared to the bullet passing through them, be indestructible. So where it might take 200-500 rounds to smooth a barrel out a little, after conversion it would be more like 4-5000 rounds. I would personally avoid since I don't feel it's needed for accurized guns but better thought of as a chrome alternative.

    But you seem to be seeking your idea of an "ultimate" barrel so ha e at it as report your findings.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noodles View Post
    I would not consider melonite unless I was going to hand lap the barrel. Like serious spend time on it and get it absolutely flawless.

    The company I occasionally consult for looked into it, they found that if the barrels had any microscopic sharp edges or burrs for manufacturing that after nitrocarborizing those burrs would be there forever and now slightly accentuated and compared to the bullet passing through them, be indestructible.
    According to the findings, would the same be true of an untreated barrel that was then chome lined? Or does the chrome lining simply cover the imperfections?

    Just curious. Sorry for the highjack.
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  10. #50
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    Just wanted to correct myself on my meloniting post. I'm in the middle of researching and finalizing getting one myself done.

    Anyway, in terms of when to get your barrel melonited on an AR-15, it differs depending on who you use.

    A shop that does a by the book melonite (pretty much every shop I linked aside from MMI Trutec), you don't send it to them as a last step. This is because regular meloniting has a possibility of causing the barrel extension to come loose. You can easily prevent this by doing melonite *before* you torque the barrel extension, do a pin, and then drill the gas port. The problem is ofc you'd be doing some small barrel work like the gas port after meloniting. So the inconvenience here is to find a shop willing to do that. However, ar15performance.com and spikestactical.com both do it this way, so it definitely is possible. I'm going to try to find a shop willing to do this pretty soon (or maybe just ask either of those two websites who they have do it for them).

    More info on the issue here:
    http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/576027_.html
    (badazzar is spikestactical.com CEO)
    https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread...=83495&page=19
    (Constructor is ar15performance.com, I believe)

    The other way is to get a barrel all the way finished with barrel extension, gas port and everything, and then have MMI Trutec melonite it. MMI is the only shop to claim to be able to do a finished AR15 barrel without the extension coming loose, because they claim that they use a lower temperature process that doesn't cause it to come loose. Not sure if it's true, though. Also, again you'd have to email that one guy that MMI defers to for single customer accounts, and not sure if he's still doing it.



    However, on the issue of melonite causing inaccuracy due to hardening imperfections, I've personally never seen anyone posting about loss of accuracy after meloniting. Most every post I've seen says it extends barrel life without affecting accuracy.

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