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Thread: Question on Form 1's and Trusts

  1. #61
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    It's not like that. We were discussing options and learning from each other.

  2. #62
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    For what it's worth, my Sch A listing the make and serial number which specifically designated the weapon as an SBR seems to have been acceptable.
    "You people have too much time on your hands." - scottryan

  3. #63
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    Mark-

    You put the original make of that KISS SBR in the schedule A?

    You can put whatever you want in the schedule A.

    You now need to add the SBR to the schedule A with it's new maker.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuicideHz View Post
    Mark-

    You put the original make of that KISS SBR in the schedule A?
    Yeah. I just listed it as an Eagle/Armalite M15-A2, Serial #, Short Bbl rifle.

    You can put whatever you want in the schedule A.
    Yes.

    You now need to add the SBR to the schedule A with it's new maker.
    That's where we disagree. An SBR is not a TRUE MAKE. If it were, the ATF would make SBR makers issue a new serial number. Even if ATF did mandate a new serial # I'd have listed that number in the Sch A before I sent it off to the ATF. (I would have assigned it a serial number prior to making it just like my silencer scenario.) It was listed as an asset of my trust, and approved by the ATF before the thing was even made. It didn't even exist in the real world.
    "You people have too much time on your hands." - scottryan

  5. #65
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    To can put whatever you want in your schedule A. They do not care what is in there.

    Your SBR is not an SBR until you get your form back. That's when you MUST add it to your trust using the proper forms that willmaker gives you.

    You simply can't add something to the sched A that doesn't exist. You MUST add it after you receive your stamp.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuicideHz View Post
    To can put whatever you want in your schedule A. They do not care what is in there.

    Your SBR is not an SBR until you get your form back. That's when you MUST add it to your trust using the proper forms that willmaker gives you.

    You simply can't add something to the sched A that doesn't exist. You MUST add it after you receive your stamp.
    Then I should add my silencer to my trust? You know the one that was already in the trust prior to my approval? Of course not. If you can't see the ridiculousness of what you've been "told" then so be it.

    And they (the ATF) does seem to care. They are requesting Sch A's from applicants, as we have already discussed. The ATF has wanted to see NFA items in the Sch A prior to approval, i.e. prior to the stamp for the obvious reason that they want people to actually update the trust.

    Really though... I don't care one way or the other. I don't even care if my trust says Mickey Mouse is the grantor as long as I get the approval and have my butt covered.
    "You people have too much time on your hands." - scottryan

  7. #67
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    I think you have it wrong- when did the ATF say they wanted to see the items in the Schedule A before they were approved?

    They just want COMPLETE Trust documents, i.e, the Trust papers, the Cert of Trust and the Schedule A. You have just assumed that they want to see the Schedule A with the pending item included. That is not the case.

    I have heard and read (back when they first started requesting all paperwork) that it was to make sure items were ending up in the Schedule A's like they were supposed to.

    Example:

    I formed my trust for a suppressor. I sent in the Certification of Trust (before they wanted everything) and was approved.

    I then added the suppressor to the Schedule A.

    Then for my SBR, I filled out the form 1 and included everything including a Schedule A that was updated since last time to show the suppressor I was approved for.

    Now for my rifle can, they will see a 9mm suppressor and an SBR in the Schedule A.

    I'm not going to add the Gemtech can to the Schedule A before I send it in. In this case I suppose I could because the can was already built and I've already bought and paid for it.

    But for my next SBR I sure wouldn't buy an LMT receiver, add it to the Schedule A by filling out the proper form and then send off a Form 1 to the ATF. What will happen then is they will approve it and I'll have to fill out another form to add a newly created SBR to the Schedule A. This SBR didn't exist before I received my stamp back.

    I think you just assumed that the ATF wants to see future or pending additions in the Schedule A. All they are looking for is that the previous items you got stamps for are in there. Whether they were in there before you applied for the stamp, they probably don't care much either way. They do want to see them in there though.

    I'll call my examiner and ask him if you'd like.

  8. #68
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    There's no assuming. Shooters have posted accounts of ATF specifically requesting the Sch A.

    People were getting all worked up about it, and wanting to black out other non-NFA assets that were listed in their Sch A's.

    I believe there was/is a dedicated thread on TOS about this. A warning to SBR applicants to include the Sch A with their F1 if they don't want the application delayed. The gist of the thread was that the ATF was adding people to closer scrutinize Trusts in light of the increasing volume of Trust NFA applications.

    I believe on Silencer talk there was a mirror thread of the ARFcom subject so us banned guys could discuss the matter. And one of the members over there is actually with ATF and explained the change in more detail, listed all of the examiners names, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by SuicideHz View Post
    I think you just assumed that the ATF wants to see future or pending additions in the Schedule A. All they are looking for is that the previous items you got stamps for are in there. Whether they were in there before you applied for the stamp, they probably don't care much either way. They do want to see them in there though.
    This also doesn't make any sense.

    1. What is the guarantee that I'll ever add another NFA item to the Trust... thus giving the ATF the opportunity to confirm prior NFA additions?

    2. If the ATF wanted to confirm that an approved Item was retroactively added to the trust, then they would make that part of the approval process. I.E. here's your stamp, now forward us an updated trust within 30 days (for example)
    "You people have too much time on your hands." - scottryan

  9. #69
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    Mark-

    I 100% totally agree with the comments you made above the quote. That's 100% true and correct. I do not believe that you have to add your "new" yet unapproved item to the Schedule A though.

    Is this something you can clarify with your contacts?

    For instance, my new G5, I do not believe, does NOT need to be on the Schedule A until after I get the stamp back.

    And, I understand that there's no guarantee that you will ever do "one more" NFA item and allow them to check back on the fact that the current one made it into the Schedule A. That doesn't mean it should go on there "prematurely."

  10. #70
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    I'm new to the whole NFA thing but I have a lower i want to SBR. I have quicken will maker and all the ATF forms but my question is, for NFA purposes, is the standard to list everything you own in life in the trust or something like $20 dollars cash as the only thing on the schedule A? I have been trckin the thread and I'm still confused about whether or not to list the Lower i want to SBR and if i need to list all my worldly possesions, as I have a will and this trust is for SBR NFA purposes. If someone could clarify this for a novice trying to join the NFA club. Thanks in advance.
    "Airborne Shooter"

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