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Thread: Single point sling options?

  1. #11
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    Sorry to be hounding this thread-

    CB-

    There are basically two techniques I have used for transitioning to a secondary when a sling is worn and attached-

    1- Fold down. When the primary stops going "bang" for whatever reason- release the pistol firing hand (the disctinction is for a reason, some people shoot rifle righty and pistol lefty, or vice-versa) to begin it's travel toward the pistol. As soon as the hand leaves the rifle, the hand still on the gun (usually weak hand) turns the carbine so the magazine is off to the support (grasping hand) side, parallel to the ground. Both hands move simultaneously downward, the hand on the primary presses the long gun firmly against the abdomen; the other hand is moving to the pistol grip and releasing the retention device. Both hands should finish their movement at about the same time.

    2- Pull Down. The hands are doing the same jobs, but instead of the support hand folding the primary down to the front, it simply pulls the gun forcefully down to the support side. This keeps the barrel from bouncing on your legs during movement, and both hands move toward the same area of their respective leg, possibly improving draw speed.

    Method 1 works with 1, 2 and 3 point slings, but 3-pointers that are properly adjusted for all other situations tend to bunch up, bringing the stock close to the neck/chin. With a 1 point sling it is only marginally better than just letting the gun drop, but it does generally prevent the FSB from negatively interfacing with your testicles at high speed.

    Method 2 works superbly with 2 point slings, and to a lesser degree with 1-points, as the 1-points will still creep/swing back to your center-line. It works ok with 3-points, though they don't deserve it.

    There is another transition method that doesn't even get a number. Drop the gun and transition. It doesn't work. Not at real speed. If you doubt it, I recommend you try it with a fully filled magazine and fully jocked-up. Report back after icing your spuds.

    If you are not wearing the sling, there are other methods, as there are if you are not using a sling at all, but that is neither here nor there.

    ETA- I have not had a QD interfere with my ability to control the gun during a transition, I am just a little suspicious of them in certain environments, and would be very upset if they gave way without my intention to do so, or did not release when I needed it to.
    Last edited by Failure2Stop; 02-22-08 at 14:23. Reason: QD
    Jack Leuba
    Director, Military and Government Sales
    Knight's Armament Company
    jleuba@knightarmco.com

  2. #12
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    F2S...I welcome the hounding....I'm all ears.

    I can't say I'm up for taking a FSB to the nether region....I'll skip the experiential learning process on that technique.

    What I didn't understand was if the webbing being slightly twisted over the buttstock aided in the control of the weapon while slung. I didn't know if using a swiveling attachment inhibited this form of control.

    Two of my closest friends who've done a good bit of door (and ass) kicking both used single point sling with nothing but praise....1 a team leader for a local SWAT team, who runs the Tactical Link on all of their entry guns and speaks very highly of them...and another who spent a tour in Falujia in the Marines, and used an improve sling point on a 20" A4.

    I just think that a single point is a quick simple way to grab a rifle and fight with it. It'll hold my carbine when I need my hands for something else, and should interfere the least with shoulder and weapon transitions. It'll be nice too, when I go to the range to be able to just unclip my carbine/ SG from the sling and set it down...leaving the sling over my shoulder.

    I understand it may not be a wonderful option for chasing down suspects, and patrolling....but I know folks who've done both, and still prefer the single point.

    Thanks for the feedback so far....any clarification any might be able to give is still more than welcome!

  3. #13
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    Slings - I used both the BFG and The Wilderness slings. Was happy with both of them.

    Mounts - Used the Tango Down and BFG mounts on my M4 overseas and the TD mount on my AR at work here. Both mounts I had downrange failed. The sling screw stripped out of the mount on the BFG model and the alloy top bracket on the TD model sheered.
    Both companies replaced the items as soon as they became aware of it. BFG sent a new mount, TD re-designed their bracket & began building it out of steel not an alloy and shipped me a new one within a week or two.

    For the shotgun, I used a GGG sling plate when I was still using a single point.
    Yup, I'm a Dinosaur!

  4. #14
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    Smile

    MId west Ind. makes a nice single point sling mount for your remington shotgun and it's easy to install.Mounted one on my mossberg and installed a specter gear sling. I like the fact this set up allows you to pump your gun as fast as you want with nothing to get in the way.For a shotgun I like it.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddemis View Post
    MId west Ind. makes a nice single point sling mount for your remington shotgun and it's easy to install.Mounted one on my mossberg and installed a specter gear sling. I like the fact this set up allows you to pump your gun as fast as you want with nothing to get in the way.For a shotgun I like it.
    I am all about single point slings on a breaching shotgun, as long as you have some kind of catch to keep it stationary.

    CB-
    Be cautious of your sources for info. I understand that they are your friends, and you don't know me from Adam, so take this however you want.

    Military members, unless they are with an upper tier unit, only really know what they are given, and simply don't know what they don't know. The USMC has been issuing a terrible 3-point for the last few years, so just about anything else seems better. However, putting a SP on an A4 will cause me some doubt about the individual's decision-making ability.

    The SP was pretty much the perfect SWAT sling until tactical 2-points hit, so I understand why your cop buddy likes it.

    Since you don't know me and I am criticising the advice given by your friends, I'll let you see what someone else has to say on the matter- Carbine Slings

    Of course, if all you are going to use the sling for is to keep your gun off the ground while at the range, just about anything will work. I really don't care what you buy, I am not selling anything nor do I receive compensation for my advice here. I don't mean to come across as a dick, I am just saying what I know to be true based on my experience.

    ETA- Apologies for this post not having anything to do with the initial question, but it is an answer to a question by the OP, hopefully informing and entertaining anyone seeking info on this topic.
    Jack Leuba
    Director, Military and Government Sales
    Knight's Armament Company
    jleuba@knightarmco.com

  6. #16
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    F2S, I understand where you're coming from, and I appreciate it.

    I know for a fact that my buddy played around with adjustable 2pt slings...he had some made before they popular here, I've seen em. It looks more like the Viking one with the free running end, than the Vickers. My buddy isn't the average swat cop by any means, he started the team 25 years ago and has been leading it since. He keeps his eyes out for all the new toys....he just finds the single point the best for his application.

    I've read Vickers article, it seems to echo what a lot of people here think...I'm not writing it off, I'd just like to try the single points out myself.

  7. #17
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    I use CSM Gear - it WORKS.
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  8. #18
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    CB-
    I absolutely encourage you to try different things out. What works for one might not work for another, and might be perfect for yet another.

    If I was working in a CQB dedicated role, I would most likely have no reason to use anything other than a 1-point sling. Innovation and experimentation is what gave us single point slings, three point slings, and tactical two point slings. If nobody tried new things we would still all have muzzle-loaders with leather slings.

    I by no means intended to imply that I believe that I am the final word of truth in tactical discussions. Anybody claiming to be such would not be welcome in any of my discussions. I also did not mean to imply that your SWAT buddy is incompetant, just defining his criteria for use.

    By all means, try them out.
    Jack Leuba
    Director, Military and Government Sales
    Knight's Armament Company
    jleuba@knightarmco.com

  9. #19
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    Talking

    I recently switched to a vickers two point on my m-4 because I was tired of the muzzel hitting the ground every time I bent over. I read your recent post where you stated single points work good as long as you have some way of securing of securing your shotgun so it wont move? Can you tell me who makes such a product and where I can find one?

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddemis View Post
    I recently switched to a vickers two point on my m-4 because I was tired of the muzzel hitting the ground every time I bent over. I read your recent post where you stated single points work good as long as you have some way of securing it so it wont move? Can you tell me who makes such a product and where I can find one?
    Some guys simply sew in a velcro strip on their support side pantleg on the thigh and that holds the weapon fairly securely and allows it to deploy in a reasonably rapid fashion.

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