Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 22

Thread: Colorado SBR personal or trust?

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    1,791
    Feedback Score
    2 (100%)
    In TN, my minor daughter is listed as the BENEFICIARY, with my wife and brother as Trustees. Items are held IN TRUST in her benefit. Written by a lawyer with NFA Trust experience.

    I have my own Notary that works for me, so re-notarizing schedule A is not a big deal to me.
    Last edited by skydivr; 12-25-12 at 00:04.
    "Those who do can't explain; those who don't can't understand"...

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    The Free State of Nebraska
    Posts
    5,427
    Feedback Score
    7 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hydguy View Post
    WTF does a direct line of male inheritors have to do with anything?

    In an NFA trust, a minor shouldn't even be listed, as they cannot have possession of an NFA firearm anyway. And I'm not sure a minor can be listed as part of an LLC either. Guess that would depend on state law.

    My daughter, and only child, is not listed as a trustee at this time because of her age.
    When she is old enough to possess an NFA item she will be added as a trustee.
    Because what is going to happen if you die and you have no younger inheritor that has a clue what is going on?

    This is why you don't have your dad, brother, wife, or nephew that is not into guns. They will have no clue what to do. I see it all the time.

    I also wouldn't put an under age child on the trust either as a beneficiary, unless they are of age to know how to take this over if you die (like a 16 year old son).




    Could you list a state that requires getting your trust notarized each time you add or remove an item?
    Nebraska

    An LLC is much better because your inheritor does not have to do anything if you die. All they have to do is take over the LLC. An LLC can perpetuate itself forever.

    A beneficiary on a trust has to transfer all the guns to himself on a form 5 when the trust is at the end of the line. A change to the NFA and a raise of the NFA tax can take this away.

    These are all the things a lawyer will not tell you.
    Last edited by scottryan; 12-25-12 at 00:31.
    "Not every thing on Earth requires an aftermarket upgrade." demigod/markm

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Colorado, USA
    Posts
    2,405
    Feedback Score
    2 (100%)
    Interesting. Of what benefit to the lawyer is it to keep such information from you?
    I'm not fat, I'm tactically padded.

    Tactical Commander Fast Action Response Team (F.A.R.T.)

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    The Free State of Nebraska
    Posts
    5,427
    Feedback Score
    7 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jer View Post
    Interesting. Of what benefit to the lawyer is it to keep such information from you?


    Because most people use a lawyer to set up a trust.

    You can do your own paperwork to set up an LLC with the state and a lawyer doesn't have to be involved.

    No trust = Laywer doesn't get paid.
    "Not every thing on Earth requires an aftermarket upgrade." demigod/markm

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    1,291
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by scottryan View Post
    I would use an LLC instead of a trust if your state has low yearly filling fees.
    So if you forget to pay your filing fees, your LLC lapses, putting your guns in a questionable legal state? That sounds like a plan. In many (most) states, your trust does not require any annual fees, or require annual tax filings (like an LLC may)


    Depending on your state, you will have to get your trust schedule A notarized every time you add a firearm to it. That means you will have to pass around a piece of paper to someone at your bank, etc with all your high dollar firearms listed on it. Do you really want to do that?
    The paper never leaves the counter in front of me, so sure. I do, and have done it, several times. Actually, the schedule A didn't get a stamp by the notary, and they only glanced at it leafing through the stack on their way to the signature page. Tinfoil hat on: Check.

    If you don't have a directly line of male inheritors, then an LLC is also better.

    I would suggest avoiding trusts where the benefactor is your dad, brother, or nephew.
    Make sure you pick a male, except for the ones you're related to. 'Cause everyone knows a penis makes you smarter, unless they're family. WHAT??

    How about have your trust set up specifically to deal with an underage benefactor, that does not give them control over the items until they are of age? The 2008 version of Willmaker I purchased for $8 does this.

    It might also be wise, while preparing your trust, to write a document that describes the legal process that the family will need to go through to make sure the NFA items are handled appropriately in case something happens to you.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    The Free State of Nebraska
    Posts
    5,427
    Feedback Score
    7 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by eodinert View Post
    So if you forget to pay your filing fees, your LLC lapses, putting your guns in a questionable legal state? That sounds like a plan. In many (most) states, your trust does not require any annual fees, or require annual tax filings (like an LLC may)
    Don't forget to pay. Do you forget to pay your federal income taxes as well?


    It might also be wise, while preparing your trust, to write a document that describes the legal process that the family will need to go through to make sure the NFA items are handled appropriately in case something happens to you.
    It won't be followed.
    "Not every thing on Earth requires an aftermarket upgrade." demigod/markm

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    The Free State of Nebraska
    Posts
    5,427
    Feedback Score
    7 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by eodinert View Post

    The paper never leaves the counter in front of me, so sure. I do, and have done it, several times. Actually, the schedule A didn't get a stamp by the notary, and they only glanced at it leafing through the stack on their way to the signature page. Tinfoil hat on: Check.

    It has nothing to do with tinfoil conspiracy.

    It has everything to do with privacy and not letting the word out that you own six or seven figures worth of firearms and you would prefer to not have them stolen.
    Last edited by scottryan; 12-25-12 at 13:27.
    "Not every thing on Earth requires an aftermarket upgrade." demigod/markm

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Southeast GA
    Posts
    174
    Feedback Score
    35 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by scottryan View Post
    It has nothing to do with tinfoil conspiracy.

    It has everything to do with privacy and not letting the word out that you own six or seven figures worth of firearms and you would prefer to not have them stolen.
    I find this statement interesting as your user name is your name and you seem to take every opportunity that you can to talk about the fact that you own "seven figures" worth of firearms. You don't mind sharing this with the entire errornet, but you are worried about the notary at your bank?

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Niceville FL
    Posts
    234
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by scottryan View Post
    Because what is going to happen if you die and you have no younger inheritor that has a clue what is going on?

    This is why you don't have your dad, brother, wife, or nephew that is not into guns. They will have no clue what to do. I see it all the time.

    I also wouldn't put an under age child on the trust either as a beneficiary, unless they are of age to know how to take this over if you die (like a 16 year old son).





    Nebraska

    An LLC is much better because your inheritor does not have to do anything if you die. All they have to do is take over the LLC. An LLC can perpetuate itself forever.

    A beneficiary on a trust has to transfer all the guns to himself on a form 5 when the trust is at the end of the line. A change to the NFA and a raise of the NFA tax can take this away.

    These are all the things a lawyer will not tell you.

    A minor CANNOT be in possession of an NFA firearm.
    That pretty much means that they cannot be listed as a trustee on a trust that has NFA, because as a TRUSTEE, they have authority to use and posses items in the trust!
    Same for an LLC. A minor cannot posses NFA. It isn't rocket surgery to figure that part out. 18 to possess, 21 to buy.

    And how is a 16 y/o boy going to be any more versed in NFA than a 16 y/o girl who has interest is firearms? They aren't, if you teach the girl the in's and out's. It isn't like a penis makes the boy have magic NFA knowledge that a vagina owner can't have.



    And the best thing to do in ANY case is to make sure there are detailed instructions with the paperwork that details HOW the NFA process works in the case of your demise.

    Form 5 transfers are tax free anyway, so the tax aspect is moot.

    As far as the notary thing in Nebraska, guess it sucks for you, even though I'm pretty sure that most banks have notary service available for free for members, so that kinda negates any financial aspect of it.
    Most notary's that I have dealt with don't really care what the document is, only that they witness the signatures that are required.
    And I don't think they make copies of the notarized items, so it's not like they have a list of what you own.

    But whatever.

    You are pretty much stuck using the LLC now anyway since all your stuff is in it, just like I'm stuck using a trust.
    Unless I start doing the individual route if they actually get around to getting rid of the CLEO requirement.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    The Free State of Nebraska
    Posts
    5,427
    Feedback Score
    7 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hydguy View Post
    A minor CANNOT be in possession of an NFA firearm.
    That pretty much means that they cannot be listed as a trustee on a trust that has NFA, because as a TRUSTEE, they have authority to use and posses items in the trust!
    Same for an LLC. A minor cannot posses NFA. It isn't rocket surgery to figure that part out. 18 to possess, 21 to buy.
    We already know that.

    You would have to have some other person (mother) be a trustee or take over the LLC until the child is of age.


    Form 5 transfers are tax free anyway
    That could change.
    "Not every thing on Earth requires an aftermarket upgrade." demigod/markm

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •