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Thread: Product Improvements to GI-style magazines

  1. #11
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    Before the recent hysteria, these were each ~$14

    I'm sure they'll have more in a few months.

    "In Stock" quantities used to show hundreds...

    http://www.44mag.com/product/nhmtg_2...ar15_magazines

    http://www.44mag.com/product/nhmtg_m...ar15_magazines



    Quote Originally Posted by tb-av View Post
    Does anyone know what the going price was for this magazine before the ban talk? Was it about $10 new?
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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottieG59 View Post
    What civilians call disposable may not be the same thing in the military. Many items are not tracked individually, such as pens and pencils. When they are used up, they get thrown away and replaced. This does not mean they are thrown away after each use or even frequently.
    Exactly. Under the DoD procurement umbrella, the term is consumable and that generally covers any item that is of low cost that is either unable to be repaired/reconditioned or deemed not worth the cost. They're used until they're gone (pens, paper, fuel) or worn out (magazines, nuts, bolts, screws, etc etc) at which point they're thrown out and replaced.

    In the case of magazines "worn out" can simply mean "I didn't have time to pick it up while I was getting shot at."

    This is as opposed to high dollar items like generators, trucks and even the rifle itself which get some form of repair/reset action when they show signs of age and wear.

    The example closest to me is the aircraft I support, when they come back from long term deployment to theater, the first place they go is to depot level maintenance and reset to return them standard configuration and condition.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by nova3930 View Post
    Exactly. Under the DoD procurement umbrella, the term is consumable and that generally covers any item that is of low cost that is either unable to be repaired/reconditioned or deemed not worth the cost. They're used until they're gone (pens, paper, fuel) or worn out (magazines, nuts, bolts, screws, etc etc) at which point they're thrown out and replaced.

    In the case of magazines "worn out" can simply mean "I didn't have time to pick it up while I was getting shot at."
    Close, but not exactly. Consumables are consumed in use. For example MREs. Once you eat it, you can't eat it again. Fuel, once you burn it you can't burn it again. A magazine though can be used again. It's an expendable. (less than 100$ but isn't consumed in use) If it disintegrated upon firing 30 rounds then it would be consumable. And yes "Durable" items are things that "retain they're original identity after use but aren't coded as expendable". An M4, hand tools, an M1A2 Abrams etc. The whole supply/property thing is a huge can of worms and is why there is an MOS dedicated to it. It's also why being a company executive officer is such a massive PITA. (Sorry about the thread derail, if you have any questions about this exciting (read dull as hell) subject feel free to PM me, I got to deal with this crap day in and day out for over a year both CONUS and OCONUS)
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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by LtNovakUSA View Post
    Close, but not exactly. Consumables are consumed in use. For example MREs. Once you eat it, you can't eat it again. Fuel, once you burn it you can't burn it again. A magazine though can be used again. It's an expendable. (less than 100$ but isn't consumed in use) If it disintegrated upon firing 30 rounds then it would be consumable. And yes "Durable" items are things that "retain they're original identity after use but aren't coded as expendable". An M4, hand tools, an M1A2 Abrams etc. The whole supply/property thing is a huge can of worms and is why there is an MOS dedicated to it. It's also why being a company executive officer is such a massive PITA. (Sorry about the thread derail, if you have any questions about this exciting (read dull as hell) subject feel free to PM me, I got to deal with this crap day in and day out for over a year both CONUS and OCONUS)
    I could be wrong but I think we're talking from two different perspectives ie procurement vs supply, that have two different definitions.

    You did get me curious enough to dig through the DAU glossary though. No definition of expendable but I found nearly half a dozen other definitions that a magazine could potentially fit under although consumable does seem to be the closest. Don't know why I ever expected DAU to actually have a clear answer...

    Now that I've reminded myself have $(%*&#$# terrible DAU is and how much of my life I wasted in those courses, think I'm gonna go hang myself...

  5. #15
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    Eugene Stoner gave an interview several years ago where they were discussing various aspects and issues with the M16.

    Some of the things he said were that (IIRC) magazines were meant to be pre-loaded and issued and not continually re-used and the issues with the DoD/Army changing propellant type, removing the chrome from the bores, BCG's, etc..

    Quote Originally Posted by nml View Post
    They're not disposable. They just wear out. I highly doubt they were designed to be disposable.



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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    Eugene Stoner gave an interview several years ago where they were discussing various aspects and issues with the M16.

    Some of the things he said were that (IIRC) magazines were meant to be pre-loaded and issued and not continually re-used and the issues with the DoD/Army changing propellant type, removing the chrome from the bores, BCG's, etc..
    Do you hav a link?

    To the OP most recently the Army improved the magazine with an anti-tilt follower and an enhanced spring.
    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    This is 2012. The world is going to end this December and people are still trying to debate the merits of piece of shit, cost cutting crap AR's. Really?

  7. #17
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    No, it was in a magazine. I believe that when I met him several years back he stated something along the same lines.

    The other stuff is well-known (propellant changes, chrome, etc...).

    Quote Originally Posted by sinlessorrow View Post
    Do you hav a link?

    To the OP most recently the Army improved the magazine with an anti-tilt follower and an enhanced spring.



    Owner/Instructor at Semper Paratus Arms

    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SemperParatusArms/

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  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    Eugene Stoner gave an interview several years ago where they were discussing various aspects and issues with the M16.

    Some of the things he said were that (IIRC) magazines were meant to be pre-loaded and issued and not continually re-used and the issues with the DoD/Army changing propellant type, removing the chrome from the bores, BCG's, etc..
    This is what I was referring to. Seems like the consensus is that, aside from follower changes and the development of the 30-round magazine, nothing has really changed vs. the original pre-load-and-dispose magazine design.
    This isn't an illegal gun, it's an "undocumented protection device". Don't be so insensitive.

  9. #19
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    It's not for lack of a recognition of the issue.The problem is that the mags were not designed to be terribly durable, and because you're talking about a weapon with relatively close clearances and tolerances, there just isn't any room to add more material to the feed lips for reinforcement.

    I've also seen interviews stating that the mags were meant to be issued loaded and tossed after they were emptied. Might have been on "Tales of the gun," can't remember if it was Stoner himself who said it, or Atwater.

  10. #20
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    Got it. Must be why they used aluminum instead of steel like the m14. So I guess they were planning on lugging around mag boxes instead of just stripper clips.
    Last edited by nml; 12-28-12 at 00:05.

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