3x magnifier behind a red dot?

[Starcraftmlg]

Can someone with EoTech experience chime in? I have a EoTech XPS that I want a 3x magnifier behind. I don't need far shooting but I do want some precise shooting. Maybe out up to 200 yards? Does the magnifier magnify the red dot itself or no?

[Koshinn]

Yes, it magnifies the red dot.

The eotech red dot is 1/3 moa but appears 1 moa unmagnified to the human eye. When magnified, it more accurately looks like a 1/3 moa dot, theoretically making it 6x smaller than an aimpoint dot.

But it's hard to tell the difference honestly.

[Starcraftmlg]

Yeah I got it on my Mk18. I was thinking about getting the magnifier to shoot out pass 100 yards. Yes I want more precise shooting. Alot of people like to brag "Oh 100yards? I can shoot 1" groupings at 100 yards with red dot alone"

[Gutshot John]

200 yards you don't need a magnifier to make decent hits though it might help with target ID.

Yes you can shoot 1" groups with a red dot alone. That isn't bragging, it's not even particularly hard from a bench using decent ammo. If you don't have the right ammo, a magnifier isn't suddenly going to make that possible.

I've seen people, not particularly strong shooters, make hits on torso steel at 600 yards during a DMR class.

[Starcraftmlg]

200 yards you don't need a magnifier to make decent hits though it might help with target ID.

Yes you can shoot 1" groups with a red dot alone. That isn't bragging, it's not even particularly hard from a bench.

I've seen people, not particularly strong shooters, make hits on torso steel at 600 yards during a DMR class.

Hmmmm. Well when I talk about AR shooting, I talk about standing shooting. Do people shoot from the bench with ARs? I only been to one range that had benches and they made everyone sit down and shoot. Defeats the purpose really.... How you going to react in a SD situation? Every other range I been to, they don't even have a shooting bench so its all standing. If I'm bench shooting, I'm busting out the sniper rifle!

[Koshinn]

Hmmmm. Well when I talk about AR shooting, I talk about standing shooting. Do people shoot from the bench with ARs? I only been to one range that had benches and they made everyone sit down and shoot. Defeats the purpose really.... How you going to react in a SD situation? Every other range I been to, they don't even have a shooting bench so its all standing. If I'm bench shooting, I'm busting out the sniper rifle!

Prone/kneeling supported/standing supported? Sometimes you take fire and you want to become as small as possible and stable as possible because the bad guy is shooting you from across a valley and you don't have the luxury of walking to your truck to grab a 7.62 bolt gun with 20x optic because your truck is on the other side of the planet.

Just sayin'.

[Starcraftmlg]

True. Just silly stuff. I like to run and shoot ect... I'm probably kneeling and such but anyways this is about the magnifier and if it makes it the dot too big for precise shooting at far distances. I'll just get an acog if I want far powered red dot.

[Gutshot John]

Hmmmm. Well when I talk about AR shooting, I talk about standing shooting. Do people shoot from the bench with ARs? I only been to one range that had benches and they made everyone sit down and shoot. Defeats the purpose really.... How you going to react in a SD situation? Every other range I been to, they don't even have a shooting bench so its all standing. If I'm bench shooting, I'm busting out the sniper rifle!

I'm sorry but you really need to read more and get some experience behind a gun...and maybe go to a real club. How do you even zero your gun from a standing position???? Defeats the purpose really.

You've set up an weirdly unrealistic set of criteria. When people talk about shooting small groups, they're typically talking about from a bench or prone. The lower you get to the ground, or the more support you get from a bench, the more precise you're going to be.

I've never heard anyone, ever, claim that they can consistently shoot 1" groups standing at 100 yards. My guess is that in your inexperience you misunderstood what they were saying.

Typically when someone is talking about magnified optics they're talking about prone/bench shooting. If you're talking about shooting on the move, then a magnifier is going to be an impediment. Narrows your field of view, makes eye position less forgiving, shooting around/under/over barricades really difficult.

Magnifier is great for target ID, it will not increase the inherent accuracy of your weapon if you don't have the basic skills necessary.

[bp7178]

I've never heard anyone, ever, claim that they can consistently shoot 1" groups standing at 100 yards.

If they did, they are probably liars, and consistently is the key phrase.

I've never seen anyone shoot consistent sub MOA groups with a RDS ever. If the rifle is fixed in a machine rest maybe, but if there is any shift even that is going to be tricky.

One of the "problems" with shooting groups is establishing the same POA every time. There is a huge difference between walking shots onto a target at 400 yards and shooting a sub MOA 10-round group at 100.

The reticle is magnified, but so is the target.

I've used magnifiers with Aimpoints and Eotechs, and while I like Aimpoints better overall, for use with a magnifier the Eotech is much better IMO. If you keep the brightness in check the dot is a very fine aiming point. The newer generation of the Eotech magnifiers also have a focus adjustment, which if you don't have 20/20 vision is a welcomed feature if you're going to be looking through it for a while; it will avoid eye strain and headaches.

[Gutshot John]

It's wise to clarify between potential and absolute accuracy. Yes you have to be consistent (POA, position etc.) but that's not really all that hard if you know what you're doing.

I've seen <=1moa groups with pretty significant consistency using quality ammo and no I'm not talking about walking the shots in at 100. Using milsurp <2moa is quite doable. Walking shots in at 600 is definitely a necessity but again totally doable with an RDS and a good spotter.

If my word isn't good enough I'm sure I've seen photographic evidence either on here or TOS where people are getting sub-MOA groups using an RDS. I don't have time (or really the inclination) to track it down but a quick google search on "sub moa groups with red dot."