My journey through AR optics, this vs that.

[ASH556]

I've been through quite a few optics on my 16" gun trying to find "the perfect" setup. At this point, I've narrowed it down to two. First, you have to get out and shoot the gun. What are you shooting and how far away is it. What ratio of speed to precision do you require? Are you shooting supported or un-supported. I'll share my journey through optics in hopes that it will help you (and save you some money).

Aimpoint T-1 with Aimpoint 3X magnifier:



This was a fairly lightweight and compact setup, but the magnifier distorted the dot and honestly, I didn't find 3X to be that useful. For my uses 100yds and closer (most of my shooting), the Aimpoint alone was just as accurate within 1/2 MOA or so. I found the magnifier just added unnecessary weight and bulk to an otherwise sleek and lightweight carbine.

Then, I bought my SBR, put the T-1 alone on it and decided I needed magnified optics for the 16" again. This time I went with what was supposed to be the Holy Grail of SPR/Recce optics, the Nightforce 2.5-10x24:



I found this to be a terrible compromise optic. The illumination is not bright enough to use like an Aimpoint or Acog during the day, the eyebox is super small. As far as a dedicated precision optic, I'd want something with a larger objective and more field of view.

Dis-heartened with the Nightforce, I decided to try the most highly-recommended ACOG, the TA33-HG:



This was like having the Aimpoint 3X magnifier again, but without the convenience of flipping the magnifier to the side and having the speed of just the Aimpoint. So basically, not enough magnification for good precision work, but too much magnification to be really fast. Also, the Field of view was very narrow, which again slowed the optic down. The reticle also seemed really small.

So I sold off the ACOG and tried a Leupold M4 MR/T 1.5-5 SPR. My thought was that the 1.5 power with the illuminated circle would be like an Eotech, but I would have 5 power on the top end with the BDC turret for precision shooting. I found again that the illumination was insufficient for quick use and that 5X combined with the thick reticle made a poor precision scope.



I also tried an Eotech to do the whole Block II clone thing. I've been in a class where two Eotechs failed for no apparent reason. Also, I don't care for the large, cluttered reticle.



So, the Eotech went away and I found a deal at Cabela's on a Zeiss Conquest 3-9x40, which is a fantastic piece of glass! Repeatable turrets, super clear glass, nice thin reticle, but with thicker outer lines so you don't lose it. At the same time, I bought back an older Aimpoint M2 on a deal from a buddy. I'm currently running a dual-optic setup where the Aimpoint is the primary, but the Zeiss comes out if I want to hunt or shoot precision, longer range. When the Zeiss isn't on the AR, it lives on my 10/22T. I just have the turret marked for easy re-zeroing when changing back and forth. Really no issue at all:





As far as precision work, the Zeiss really makes it easy. The 9 power allows me to easily identify targets out to 500 (and beyond). The repeatable finger-adjustable turrets make dialing for range quick and accurate. A simple dope card, and we're off to the races. Here's a 5-shot group at 500 (bear in mind this rifle has a Lightweight CHF barrel and this was after already shooting for dope at 100, 200, 300, and 400, so the barrel was hot):

[rdmega]

I really love Zeiss scopes. They offer a great value that a lot of people overlook. Thank you for the excellent post and pictures.

[Shao]

Thanks for sharing... I've always despised red dots of any kind but I'm currently in the market for a decent scope for my precision build. I picked an Aimpoint CompM3 when they were ridiculous cheap recently, but it's heavy and does absolutely nothing to improve my shooting or target acquisition time. Looks like you may have saved me some money.

Edit: Argh! My precision build is going to put me in the poor house! Between a UBR and a Zeiss optic, I could have bought another AR a coupla months back!!!

[RearwardAssist]

Thanks for sharing this, I think I have finally cemented the fact that I don't want an eotech, I am constantly having to talk myself out of buying one. I think I'm just going to hold out for the spectre dr.

[RearwardAssist]

Thanks for sharing... I've always despised red dots of any kind but I'm currently in the market for a decent scope for my precision build. I picked an Aimpoint CompM3 when they were ridiculous cheap recently, but it's heavy and does absolutely nothing to improve my shooting or target acquisition time. Looks like you may have saved me some money.

Edit: Argh! My precision build is going to put me in the poor house! Between a UBR and a Zeiss optic, I could have bought another AR a coupla months back!!!

Does absolutley nothing to improve your target acquistion time? Have you timed yourself? I'm assuming you are refering vs irons. Which I find hard to believe.

[Failure2Stop]

Does absolutley nothing to improve your target acquistion time? Have you timed yourself? I'm assuming you are refering vs irons. Which I find hard to believe.

In daylight on clearly defined targets I have found that speed and precision are a wash between 1x optics and irons. When lighting conditions change, targets aren't clearly defined, and unconventional positions are introduced, the advantage quickly goes to the 1x optics.

[BlackViper]

I also spent a lot of time and effort looking for the perfect AR optic and came to the conclusion that there ain’t one.
I got a Primary Arms red dot to see if I liked red dots. Even with astigmatism it worked well close in and not too bad out to about 100 yards.
However, for any precision work magnified optics are a requirement for me (old eyeballs). Long story short what I came up with is flip up irons, a Burris Black Diamond 3-12 (stolen from my 308, gives me an excuse to buy another scope for it) on a Bobro mount and an Aimpoint Pro with QPR. Easy to change back and forth and works for any situation.
BV

[rauchman]

To the OP, thanks for posting this. I, along w/ others I'm sure, will benefit from this.

If you don't mind, some questions for you...

Have you given up trying to find an optic that does both closer in stuff and extended range? It sounds like you're using the Aimpoint for out to 100 and then taking off the Aimpoint and putting on the Zeis for shooting further.

Have you considered a 1x6 or 1x8, or is this magnification range still too limited for your uses?

Between the T1 and M2, which do you prefer and why?

On the Leupold 1.5x5, you mentioned you didn't like it since the illumination was bright enough and the reticle was too thick. Were there other 1x4'ish scopes you would consider? If so, which ones and why?

I didn't see it mentioned, but is the Zeiss illuminated? How did the illimunation, or lack thereof, factor into your buying decision?

Do you feel the 3x9 magnification capability of the Zeiss is ideal, or is it good enough compromise, for your needs? Were there 2.5x10 or other scope choices that you were looking at also? If so, what were they and why did you go w/ the Zeiss? Was the Zeiss scope something you deliberately went out hunting for, or was it an opportunistic buy?

Again, thanks for you report on your optics history. It answers questions, but also raises some. I think we are all on the hunt for the ideal optic, but as others have mentioned, no one scope has really nailed it yet. Some manufacturer is going to make a fortune when they get the right feature set together on a scope of this type. Thanks!

[Ick]

I have poor eyesight... the only soution I found was a 6x optic. Works well for up-close yet allows me to put it on paper at 100 meters... without a lot of weight.

Beyond 100 meters and I need way more than 6x magnification. That doesn't bode well for being flexible. I do have a variable scope.. but that gets heavy and bulky.

A fixed 6x scope is about the best for me.

Oh to have younger eyes....

[Shao]

Does absolutley nothing to improve your target acquistion time? Have you timed yourself? I'm assuming you are refering vs irons. Which I find hard to believe.

Nope... I've trained with irons for almost 30 years now. I ran a holographic on a 1911 racegun for awhile in the late 80s. Never did a thing to improve my scores when I shot IPSC.

In daylight on clearly defined targets I have found that speed and precision are a wash between 1x optics and irons. When lighting conditions change, targets aren't clearly defined, and unconventional positions are introduced, the advantage quickly goes to the 1x optics.

Well thanks for partially backing me on that one... I think instincts play a lot into it. That, and I don't like looking down a tube at my target. I'm quicker with irons. To each their own.