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Thread: ALERT: Fingerprint / photo reqs for Trusts/Corp coming soon?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by elnino31 View Post
    I am curious to know why they would want to eliminate the CLEO signature requirement for approval.

    Just seems as though if would be a deterrent for ownership in some areas. If that's the main goal of these changes.
    I think these suggested changes come from the folks in the NFA Branch and not the White House, and precede the current frenzy over the Newtown murders. We've been hearing rumors about this for many months now.

    What they're essentially doing is making the individual application process and the trust application process the same. Good news for individual applicants, bad news for trust applicants. As has been noted, the other advantages of trust ownership are still there.

  2. #12
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    You can thank the NFATCA partially for this because they worked with the BATFE on this matter and in fact is was published in one of the issues of SAR.



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  3. #13
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    We'll be lucky if fingerprints and photos are the only new obstacle in the way of continuing with NFA purchases.
    AMERICAN INFIDEL

  4. #14
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    Right now, the general assumption seems to be that the limited number of NFA examiners is what slows down the NFA process. But I was under the impression that NFA farms the actual background check out to the FBI.

    Regardless of the number of new examiners they have added or might add in the future, I would think that adding that many more background and fingerprint checks to the system, trust applicants AND the influx if all "assault weapons" have to be NFA, is going to bog the system down incrementally further. Feinstein's mention of NFA registration includes more funds for ATF, but it seems to me that, at some point, FBI personnel checking fingerprints and doing background check becomes the major stumbling block.
    Last edited by Hmac; 01-10-13 at 08:01.

  5. #15
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    This new rule COULD be a good thing...but I'll withhold judgment for now. Let's look at this from several perspectives. First, consider the existing system for NFA items. I was perfectly happy to go the individual route but my CLEO refused to sign off even though I easily passed many background checks and held very high military security clearances before I retired. So for me the only way I could lawfully own a suppressor was the trust route--which is what I used. I've talked to others who were in the same boat. Now consider the issue from the NFA examiner's perspective. He or she HAS to review your trust to make sure it complies with your state's law AND all Federal NFA rules. Does that speed up the approval process? I don't think so. What would speed up the process is a system where the examiner had all the information on you (and your co-trustees and beneficiaries) on file so it could be pulled up and updated by a QUICK background check similar to what is done now when you buy a firearm through an FFL dealer. Will it work this way? I don't know. If they put more weapons on the NFA list without more resources, then this proposal will stink. If they require you to submit fingerprint cards EACH TIME you submit a Form 1 or 4 it will stink. But for now...rather than being negative...I'll withhold judgment until I see the entire process. Me: I'm a retired JAG officer.
    Last edited by elkslayer44; 01-13-13 at 14:27.

  6. #16
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    More burecratic BS; if fingerprints and pictures would help cut transfer times in half, I would say that would be a good thing. But this is just going to bog down transfer times even more.

  7. #17
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    Bottom line, the current administration isn't going to do anything that makes it EASIER....
    "Those who do can't explain; those who don't can't understand"...

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by elkslayer44 View Post
    This new rule COULD be a good thing...but I'll withhold judgment for now. Let's look at this from several perspectives. First, consider the existing system for NFA items. I was perfectly happen to go the individual route but my CLEO refused to sign off even though I easily passed many background checks and held very high military security clearances before I retired. So for me the only way I could lawfully own a suppressor was the trust route--which is what I used. I've talked to others who were in the same boat. Now consider the issue from the NFA examiner's perspective. He or she HAS to review your trust to make sure it complies with your state's law AND all Federal NFA rules. Does that speed up the approval process? I don't think so. What would speed up the process is a system where the examiner had all the information on you (and your co-trustees and beneficiaries) on file so it could be pulled up and updated by a QUICUK background check similar to what is done now when you buy a firearm through an FFL dealer. Will it work this way? I don't know. If they put more weapons on the NFA list without more resources, then this proposal will stink. If they require you to submit fingerprint cards EACH TIME you submit a Form 1 or 4 it will stink. But for now...rather than being negative...I'll withhold judgment until I see the entire process. Me: I'm a retired JAG officer.
    How is a BATFE examiner going to know if your 'trust' is legal?
    How about a trust that has trustee's that live out of state
    For a Corp, I know of many that have dozens of people who handle firearms. Security companies that use NFA firearms. So having to list every officer of the corp, every employee who is authorized to handle the firearms, and then all the actual security guards.
    How the hell is having everyone of those people having to submit pics and prints going to go over?
    Can you imagine a corp purchasing an NFA item, and then having to submit 50 or more sets of pics and prints? Can you imagine how much time that would take?
    Insane.
    A trust/corp negates the need for that because the trust/corp is NOT an individual, and therefor has no background to check, prints to review, or a face to photograph.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hydguy View Post
    How is a BATFE examiner going to know if your 'trust' is legal?
    I attended a continuing legal education course for lawyers on "gun trusts." One of the BATFE staff attorneys was a speaker.

    Based on his presentation, each examiner is assigned to a group of co-located states, so they get to know their states' requirements real well.

    The examiners have a check list. As long as they find the items on their checklist in your trust, it is approved. That is not the same as the examiner finding that the trust is valid or proper.

    The staff attorneys create the checklists. 26 states have adopted the Uniform Trust Code so the laws from state to state are largely the same. Even the non-code states are not going to dramatically differ.

    If an examiner finds something questionable, they pass it to counsels' office for an opinion.

    He mentioned one examiner kept finding the same name used for the residual beneficiary. Apparently, someone made his trust available for copying. A bunch of people changed the creator and trustee but not all the beneficiaries. The applications were approved. But if the trusts are ever fulfilled, there is someone somewhere that is going to receive a truckload of NFA items in the coming years.

  10. #20
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    Just one more hard lesson of: don't underestimate the creativity of the gun grabbers...
    Last edited by El Cid; 01-10-13 at 20:38.

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