Competition handgun

[exitinyourhead]

Definetly bookmarking and reading these links.. much appreciated!

I certainly want to do more "watching and listening" at first and until I get a better understanding of what is going on. Of course, there will be all sorts of safety guidelines and range protocols I'm not familiar with from shooting at home. I try to be as safe as possible, but being safe when it's just two of you is different than with a crowd. We are hoping to attend a couple of matches as spectators before choosing clinics and selecting classes for competition.

I would like to try and compete in as many different classes and take as many different clinics as our schedules allow and than narrow it down to what we like best. I went to the gun store that I have liked in the past and they had exactly zero M&P's new or even used. Lots of Glocks avail but I really wanted to look at both before making any decision. I thought with both of us shooting it could be cool to buy one of each but ended up just buying nothing and will look for a dealer with better stock.

And oh yes holsters! I love buying gun stuff.. what an addiction! I constantly shop and put stuff in carts for the AR, I can't imagine what this new hobby is going to set me back.

Once again, I appreciate all the input. This is the kind of thing that really helps. It's better to have some sort of idea, even if you don't exactly "know" what is going on. You hear certain words and phraseology and put it together with things you've read on the forums and it makes more sense and it seems like you brain is conditioned to it better.

Speaking of safe, went to a cook out this afternoon. My wife said to bring my guns because there are some other dads bringing their guns. I raised my eyebrows because this also involves bringin my kids too but I'm sure this is safer than I see it in my mind right? Well long story short... it's a campfire on the river bank with one super drunk guy with an ak47, ar15, M1 garand and a 454 cannon revolver throwing cans into a river at dusk and shooting them as they float by, three dads with beers saying wow and gee, meanwhile, kids are running around with hot marshmallows on glowing red sticks and screaming at the top of their lungs. Needless to say my guns didn't leave their bags, let alone the trunk. I usually don't say "Honey get the kids and get in the damn truck," but in this case I thought it was appropriate.

[Gutshot John]

If you and your wife are both going to carry. You might consider getting the same model. It's always nice being able to swap mags.

In terms of holsters, among the most reasonable and concealable are the Blackhawk Askins CQC. With a full-size glock 34, it barely prints on your cover garment.

Oh if you decide to take a class at TSA, take the Fist-Fire curriculum as opposed to the generic CCW. I think he will be in Key Largo (if thats relatively convenient to where you are) in April.

[Failure2Stop]

The biggest hurdle is to just grab your gear, some ammo, and go shoot the competition. If you wait until you feel you are ready, you will never do it.

I wanted to shoot USPSA/IDPA for years. Then I met a couple of GMs who told me exactly what I said above. I grabbed my G35, belt, mags, pouches, holster, 200 rounds of .40 and shot. I didn't set any records, but I was right with the pack, and started learning the game. Changes occurred in gear and technique, so I was glad I didn't spend a bunch of money first.

Just shoot it.

[Abraxas]

The biggest hurdle is to just grab your gear, some ammo, and go shoot the competition. If you wait until you feel you are ready, you will never do it.

I wanted to shoot USPSA/IDPA for years. Then I met a couple of GMs who told me exactly what I said above. I grabbed my G35, belt, mags, pouches, holster, 200 rounds of .40 and shot. I didn't set any records, but I was right with the pack, and started learning the game. Changes occurred in gear and technique, so I was glad I didn't spend a bunch of money first.

Just shoot it.

That is no bulls@*#

[Alpha Sierra]

[QUOTE=Charles;133658] An M&P, or Glock in 9mm. Those are the two best choices available in polymer 9mm's right now. The rest are second tier.
Highly debatable.

And for the record, IDPA isn't more "tactical" or better for "self defense", then USPSA....

Again, debatable.

[Charles]

Highly debateable

Not hardly....

Again, debatable.

Again, hardly....

[ToddG]

And for the record, IDPA isn't more "tactical" or better for "self defense", then USPSA....

I'm going to have to disagree with that.

Let me begin by saying that neither game is training and certainly neither is training you to fight. They're both exactly what I called them: games. Competition has its place and can be a benefit to your fighting ability, but it doesn't take the place of dedicated training, mindset, or common sense.

(also, a great deal of what follows is very dependent on your local club ... I've shot both USPSA and IDPA around the country. There are very "tactical" USPSA clubs and very "gamey" IDPA clubs. But as a rule, it tends to be the other way around)

So while neither of them is ideal, why would I say that IDPA is "better for self defense than USPSA?"

Courses of fire

A typical stage at IDPA is much closer and more relevant to practical self-defense than a typical USPSA stage. IDPA stages are specifically limited to reasonable distances and reasonable round counts. They often require the use of cover, and while the IDPA cover rules are permissive they're certainly a lot better than no rules at all.

Also, because there is a built-in allowance to walk through and "air gun" stages in USPSA, you often have what are called memory game stages. A lot of people enjoy them, but again it's placing a premium on something with little applicability to practical self-defense.

Scoring system

The IDPA scoring system places a substantially greater emphasis on accuracy than USPSA. While it's true you need to be extremely accurate in both sports to win a National Championship, at lower levels you can literally miss (the A-zone) fast enough to win in USPSA.


Equipment

Because the courses of fire tend to be limited in distance and round count, and because accuracy is at such a premium compared to speed, the equipment is much more practical. By definition, the gun and holster you use at an IDPA match are required to be suitable for CCW.

People/Mindset

Because of the shorter stages and minimally tricked-out guns, IDPA tends to attract a different type of shooter than USPSA. There is certainly a lot of overlap (and many people, myself included, shoot both) but the tenor of the two games is fairly noticeable. USPSA is first and foremost a game. IDPA, for many competitors at all skill levels, is about testing practical skills for a "higher purpose." If anything, one of the biggest negatives about IDPA is that too often a stage designer, Match Director, or Range (Safety) Officer will apply what he thinks is an important tactical principle to something ... in a completely backwards, inappropriate, or otherwise harmful way.1

If you go to an IDPA match and shoot a stage in a way that isn't ideal (from a score standpoint) but you do things that are practical/tactical (moving more slowly around cover, topping off your gun before leaving cover, creating distance rather than closing for the nearest/fastest shot, etc.) no one is going to make fun of you. In fact, odds are you'll get a pat on the back from many competitors. Do those things at most USPSA clubs and folks will be downright stupefied. BTDT.

I've never had anyone make fun of me for being too gamey at an IDPA match, but I've been teased and in some cases outright harassed at some USPSA matches for being too "tactical" or simply for being "one of those IDPA types."

There are some very important things that USPSA does better, and if you can shoot both I highly encourage it. But if you only have the time, money, energy, or interest to shoot one, and if your local club is decent, odds are IDPA will be more in line with your goals if you're looking to get into competition as part of your overall training regimen.

Again, they are both games and neither one of them is perfect. Especially at the upper levels, things with almost no practical value (specific pre-planned footwork, set-ups, etc.) play a much bigger role in who wins than shooting skill.

1It is for this reason that you see many experienced people gravitate toward USPSA over IDPA. Not only are the shooting problems more challenging, but the game is much more free form ... you don't have to worry about getting into a pissing contest with someone who knows he's more tacticool than you because he went to Gunsite 250 twelve years ago or has a Paladin Press library at home.

[Gutshot John]

Shoot whatever you can...whenever you can.

Any difference between USPSA and IDPA in terms of being more "practical" or "tactical" is a question of degree. Shooting either beats nothing. As for the complaint that you develop "bad habits" in competition, the primary habit it instills is putting rounds on target as quickly as possible. Any way you look at it it's good training. Competition will only make you a better shooter.

If being "tactical" is your emphasis, try a TSA match. You can pretty much shoot anything you want to bring, so long as you cover conceals it, and it fits inside the dimensions of a box.

The idea is to compete with your carry gun, no matter what you choose. In fact it actually rewards you for shooting a heavier caliber... Major/Minor scoring means that guys who carry .45 can readily compete with guys who shoot 9mm.

[ChandlerSniper158]

You have to take what you can use for both disciplines and add them to your toolbox. Competing with a weapon is a game.. fighting is what it is going to be..but you can apply what you get from competing to fighting.. ask LAV or Kyle Lamb.. both are certified BTDT dudes and both are very good competitive shooters. Where is it a bad thing to learn to handle and move with your guns under stress? Competing is high speed weapons handling plain and simple. Your trying to engage multiple targets as quickly and efficiently as possible. It will make you a better shooter in the end, and thats what it`s all about. It isn`t going to make you a Tactical Ninja.. its going to make you focus on your front sight / optic and get quick accurate hits, when you add that to your training and tactics.. your better all the way around. Its about your mindset and what you choose to do with it.

I have seen so many guys both at work or at a match who talk a good game till that timer goes off.. then they look like a fool. It`s the best way you can induce stress without someone actually shooting something back at you. Theres tons of verifiable info available where someone who competes with his weapons was able to prevail in a conflict because of the skill sets he used when he competed. I think its funny when people call someone a "gamer" because they look at a stage and try to figure out a way to do it as efficiently as possible. I had a guy call me that at a match once because I was looking at angles and such to shoot at as many targets as I could from behind cover without exposing myself. Is it wrong to look for something that will give me an advantage in a real gunfight over my adversary?? You can bet your ass I`m going to do it in a real fight if it`s there. If thats being called a gamer then I guess I am.. but I shot that stage substantially faster ( 26 seconds faster, dropping 1 point total ) then my name calling friend and only exposed myself to targets that were already engaged. He moved from barricade to barricade without moving and shooting.. just running exposing himself to possible incoming rounds.. which way is more "tactical"???

The majority of people who talk shit about competing are too proud to get out and shoot against someone else because they don`t want to look bad. Its easy to go out on a square range and hit targets that you set up and run it over and over again. If they do come to a match and get their ass handed to em.. it`s because "those guys are all gamers" they aren`t tactical shooters.. yada yada yada.

CS

[Charles]

I swear too God I'm going to puke if I hear one more person say -"do it tactically", "don't worry about winning". Bullshit! The will to win, is the will to win. It doesn't matter if its a gunfight, IDPA, USPSA, UFC, or ****ing checkers.


"Ghosting a stage"- Thats funny. I have "ghosted" every single level, room, and door of every building I've done a hit on. Even if it's just tape on the floor, I've "walked through it".

"Gaming"- I have to laugh at all the tools that talk about "gamers" and how thats why they shoot IDPA as they are shooting there G34, yet carry a Smith Airweight. IF, they even carry at all. It's all BS, ego padding! I always shoot my carry gun. 90% of the time I shoot the exact setup that I carry- shorts, flip-flops, Oakley's, IWB, and mag in the pocket. I still win. Maybe thats because I don't give myself an excuse?


"Learning bad habits"- if anyone has figured out a way to teach someone how to do something in a 20 second stage, please tell me. I can't hardly seem to get them to do it after two full days of non-stop "learning". You are not going to undue hundreds of hours of "training" at a 1 minute match. But hey, that sounds good when you explain why your at the bottem of the list, doesn't it?.

If you think your "sharpshooter" ass, that does it "right" is going to beat a "master" that games, in a gunfight, your smoking crack.



The only things you get out of "action" competitions, is shooting, manipulating, running, and thinking under the stress of the timer. Thats it! You do not get tactics or even practice tactics at any of them.