Confused on optics...

[Mauser KAR98K]

My MK12 Mod 0 is about to be completed in the next few weeks. However, I do not know which optic I should get, and I am cornered on price between the rifle and what optic I can grab. I am also confused on a proper mount. I hear and read that LaRue is a great mounting system, but I am trying not to blow a crap load of money.

My intent for the rifle: Long range fun maybe out to 1K if i could find a range here in TN. Primary mission is coyote hunting out to 600 yards.

My initial choice for an optic is the Vortex PST 4-16 (mil dot or MRAPS?) for close to $700. However, I have been leaning towards the Nikon M223 at LGS, same power, but with the BDC 600. And it is $200 cheaper which gives me money for ammo/training...political climate depending.

Pros-cons. Should I save money, or go almost literally for broke?

[TehLlama]

The MIL/MIL PST still seems like the answer if you're looking to push the range envelope. The large objective should also be of use as well - saving money on the mount isn't so hard anymore either, if you don't need/care about quick detaching it or remounting it constantly.

[Mauser KAR98K]

The MIL/MIL PST still seems like the answer if you're looking to push the range envelope. The large objective should also be of use as well - saving money on the mount isn't so hard anymore either, if you don't need/care about quick detaching it or remounting it constantly.

Where I live is mountainous and I tend to perch on 60-100 foot bluffs in thick wooded areas, and sometimes have to traverse this terrain to get to a good place overlooking fields. Means i will probably not have to scope attached but in a case in my bag until i set up. So a good mount is going to be a must.

I like the PST, but I just don't know now if I can justify it. I like the Nikon, but it is the only scope I have laid my hands on to look through. I am reasoning for out here and the rifle I am using I will be okay with it. However...

Needs vs. what a poor broke college guy can afford. Sucks that I love the look of the Mk12.

[shootist~]

Don't expect any QD mount to get you back to a perfect longer range zero, once removed. Just leave the optic on the gun - use caps or a scope cover to protect the lens. Also, as mentioned you don't "need" a QD mount, (but they are nice).

The ADM mounts are less expensive than LaRue, and IMO work just as well if not better; though they are a little slower in the QD department.

Cheap (budget end) glass tends to give a fuzzy picture as distances increase. While you may have to settle for less now, you will want better quality later on. I would at least go with PST (or similar) quality even if you have to save up a bit. Their HS line (no illumination) will get you there for a little less.

While I think it's a bit large for an AR, the Midway Vortex HS 5-15 Mildot works well (for me) to about 700 yds. It's on a bolt gun in my case.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/183...cm_vc=wishList

[RearwardAssist]

My MK12 Mod 0 is about to be completed in the next few weeks. However, I do not know which optic I should get, and I am cornered on price between the rifle and what optic I can grab. I am also confused on a proper mount. I hear and read that LaRue is a great mounting system, but I am trying not to blow a crap load of money.

My intent for the rifle: Long range fun maybe out to 1K if i could find a range here in TN. Primary mission is coyote hunting out to 600 yards.

My initial choice for an optic is the Vortex PST 4-16 (mil dot or MRAPS?) for close to $700. However, I have been leaning towards the Nikon M223 at LGS, same power, but with the BDC 600. And it is $200 cheaper which gives me money for ammo/training...political climate depending.

Pros-cons. Should I save money, or go almost literally for broke?

Not to sound all preachy but if it were me I would be shooting irons if you're literally dropping all of your funds to be able to go from Nikkon to Vortex.

[Mauser KAR98K]

Don't expect any QD mount to get you back to a perfect longer range zero, once removed. Just leave the optic on the gun - use caps or a scope cover to protect the lens. Also, as mentioned you don't "need" a QD mount, (but they are nice).

The ADM mounts are less expensive than LaRue, and IMO work just as well if not better; though they are a little slower in the QD department.

Cheap (budget end) glass tends to give a fuzzy picture as distances increase. While you may have to settle for less now, you will want better quality later on. I would at least go with PST (or similar) quality even if you have to save up a bit. Their HS line (no illumination) will get you there for a little less.

While I think it's a bit large for an AR, the Midway Vortex HS 5-15 Mildot works well (for me) to about 700 yds. It's on a bolt gun in my case.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/183...cm_vc=wishList

Thank you sir. I am looking at the 4X16 reticule, but I guess Midway only has them with Vortex's BDC, but for the distances I am shooting, it should be okay. I don't know. Optics are a whole new thing for me.

Not to sound all preachy but if it were me I would be shooting irons if you're literally dropping all of your funds to be able to go from Nikkon to Vortex.

I have so many rifles with irons, and growing up shooting on target match rifles running irons, new change in pace for me. I have been getting great results with RDS, so I need to climb the latter of excellence, as Haley would say.

Now: 4X16 or 5X15? 44mm tube or 50mm tube? Ughh....

[JSantoro]

So a good mount is going to be a must.

Related to what shootist~ said: Bear in mind that the "return-to-zero" capabilities of many mounts actually mean "to within no more than .5MOA." So, >.5MOA deviation is considered the failure point; while these mounts trend well inside that envelope, you still stand a good chance of seeing POI shifts if you're mounting/dismounting the optic, no matter how good the mount is and no matter how consistent your method for doing so is, especially given the distances you're describing.

Just food for thought, so that you're approaching this with realistic expectations....

Specific to LaRue mounts, many of them offer the VFZ option in both biased and un-biased mounts, which is not QD, and therefore less pricey.

As a for-example only, per their site, the VFZ option on a LT120 or LT104 saves you $50, bringing the retail from $264 to $214, and $210 to $160, respectively.

[Mauser KAR98K]

Related to what shootist~ said: Bear in mind that the "return-to-zero" capabilities of many mounts actually mean "to within no more than .5MOA." So, >.5MOA deviation is considered the failure point; while these mounts trend well inside that envelope, you still stand a good chance of seeing POI shifts if you're mounting/dismounting the optic, no matter how good the mount is and no matter how consistent your method for doing so is, especially given the distances you're describing.

Just food for thought, so that you're approaching this with realistic expectations....

Specific to LaRue mounts, many of them offer the VFZ option in both biased and un-biased mounts, which is not QD, and therefore less pricey.

As a for-example only, per their site, the VFZ option on a LT120 or LT104 saves you $50, bringing the retail from $264 to $214, and $210 to $160, respectively.

Roger that.

Just ordered the Vortex/Midway 5x15 scope. What type of mount for height do I need to look at? Currently it is a toss up between LaRue or ADM. LaRue seems to have gone up on their prices since I last posted.

[shootist~]

Roger that.

Just ordered the Vortex/Midway 5x15 scope. What type of mount for height do I need to look at? Currently it is a toss up between LaRue or ADM. LaRue seems to have gone up on their prices since I last posted.

Standard height on an AR for a magnified optic is 1.5" +/- ~.1" (for the center-line of the optic above the rail). Much lower an you won't clear the BUIS and much higher your eye position is too high for normal cheek wield.

Just looking at the Vortex HS 5-15 (mounted on my bolt gun), laid up beside an AR with a standard cantilevered ADM Recon - I would "think" the ADM 30mm Recon, would also get the correct eye relief.
https://www.primaryarms.com/American...recon%2030.htm

The LaRue equivalent would be the SPR-1.5 mount (also called the LT-104).

[Mauser KAR98K]

Standard height on an AR for a magnified optic is 1.5" +/- ~.1" (for the center-line of the optic above the rail). Much lower an you won't clear the BUIS and much higher your eye position is too high for normal cheek wield.

Just looking at the Vortex HS 5-15 (mounted on my bolt gun), laid up beside an AR with a standard cantilevered ADM Recon - I would "think" the ADM 30mm Recon, would also get the correct eye relief.
https://www.primaryarms.com/American...recon%2030.htm

The LaRue equivalent would be the SPR-1.5 mount (also called the LT-104).

Roger that. Last question: What is the advantage of the 20 MOA AD Recon (same price)?