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Thread: Bushmaster specific question:

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fozzy_Bear View Post
    (even IF tSHTF, I'll probably be using a remmy 870 to defend my family... For numerous reasons)
    Do a little more lurking/searching regarding 5.56mm carbines for home defense versus shotguns and you may be surprised by what you find out.

    If you have an open mind, I think it will end up being changed.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by tkoglman View Post
    If you have an open mind, I think it will end up being changed.

    Indeed. The bird gun falls short of the Carbine's abilities in almost every aspect.
    "You people have too much time on your hands." - scottryan

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by tkoglman View Post
    ...
    If you have an open mind, I think it will end up being changed.
    Oh, I've got an open mind... and I'm not saying that a shotgun the the best for everyone(or even most people). In my particular case, I think it's the right way to go... But that's not the topic I'm interested in here. This is my barrel-attachment thread.

    I don't have the footing to wander into THAT religious war... quite yet.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fozzy_Bear View Post
    (even IF tSHTF, I'll probably be using a remmy 870 to defend my family... For numerous reasons)


    Pray that the threat never gets between you and your family or worse yet gets ahold of one of them while you're holding your scatter-gun.


    Life is not a square range with a paper target standing in the open 15yards from you.
    NOT in training for combat deployment.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumpy196 View Post
    Pray that the threat never gets between you and your family or worse yet gets ahold of one of them while you're holding your scatter-gun.


    Life is not a square range with a paper target standing in the open 15yards from you.
    As I said... I didn't really want to turn this thread into that discussion, but since you insist;

    You are making a wrong assumption.

    You are assumeing that I am more accurate with a rifle than I am with my shotgun. - Probably because YOU happen to be more accurate with a rifle than a shotgun. But that has no bearing.

    Or maybe beacuse you have seen an impressive looking chart somwhere that talks about "penetration" in some scientific terms. I spent years as a mechanical designer for the military, and I assure you, I am very aware of the physics involved. gyroscopic stability, multiple density fluid dynamics, fragmentation design of the modern 5.56 bullet, etc. I didn't want to come here and drop a load of techno-babble, but if it makes you feel beter to know that I have actually done my homework... I have.

    Here's the thing:
    I have fired exactly 58 rounds out of my (or any) Black Rifle. All of them this past weekend.

    (here is THAT story, BTW: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=12433 )


    Would YOU trust your family's defence to that level of experience?

    However, I myself can put a 12 ga slug anywhere I want it (within 17 milimeters plus or minus) inside a 10 meter radius and my home has no line-of-sight longer than 10 meters. And I can do so quickly, and under pressure. (Yes, I know that. No, I will not tell that story here.)

    Dude... Whatever side of the whole (which XXX should I use) argument you are on, the answer is ALWAYS, "Use whatever YOU are most accurate with"

    I never said that a shotgun is the best tool for that job. I never said that I will always only use a shotgun. and I certainly never said YOU should use a shotgun.

    I said that if tSHTF, I would be using my 870.





    Now,
    Has anybody ever fired a rifle with and with out an A2 flash-hider to see if it has any muzzle-brake affects?

    .

  6. #16
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    If you are more accurate with a slug then you need practice on the carbine... Seriously.

    No offense brother... but you're not the first guy to sight his engineering background (or other various education/experience) when backing up your basis for poor weapon selection. It's a common tactic on TOS.

    The slug might be acceptable if you live alone. But those big hunks of smashed slug are going to be much more dangerous to others in your home after they leave the threats body; as opposed to fragments of 5.56 which are more unlikely to exit the threats body anyway.

    Additionally, threats tend to move around rather than stand there and let you shoot at them. Thus, misses are a real possibilty in the stress of a real shooting. Follow up shots with a shotgun are much slower. Flash is huge. Ammo capacity is low. Recoil is high. Have you ever seen someone in class do that "can't miss fast enough" thing? It could happen to any one of us under the right circumstances. (I'd rather recover from that train wreck with 20 more rounds in my mag instead of fumbling to load more slugs into my shotgun)

    A firefight can actually spill out of your house and into the street. The 10 meter maximum shot range is not a good baseline in my opinion.

    And NO. There is no noticeable diff in recoil from my experience by pulling the A2 off of the barrel. (I tried it with an 11.5" SBR for flash suppression research)

    Cheers, buddy. We're just trying to get you to see the light.
    "You people have too much time on your hands." - scottryan

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by demigod View Post
    If you are more accurate with a slug then you need practice on the carbine... Seriously.
    Demigod,
    You must have missed something.

    No, I'm not trying to be confrontational or anything. Seriously, you must have missed that what you just said (quoted above) was exactly my point.


    You and I are, in fact, in total agreement..

    From my last post:
    Quote Originally Posted by Fozzy_Bear View Post
    ...You are assumeing that I am more accurate with a rifle than I am with my shotgun.
    ...
    Here's the thing:
    I have fired exactly 58 rounds out of my (or any) Black Rifle. All of them this past weekend.
    ...
    Would YOU trust your family's defence to that level of experience?
    ....
    And I didn't note engineering for my choice, I mentioned that I do, indeed, know the information and that it isn't ignorance of the facts that caused the choice. There are simply more relevenat factors, IMHO. -- In my mind that's a difference, but you may disagree.



    And thanks for the A2 info. You did research eh? Cool... Is it by chance available online anywhere?

    .

  8. #18
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    We are at peace... no worries! It's just that some of the guys you're debating on the subject are Coppers with significant LE experience and good training credentials. Not just opinionated loud mouths like me, but real world users with practical experience.


    But the A2 thing.... I'm not aware of anything online. I just messed with it at a low light shoot once.

    Like rsilvers (the designer of the blackout flash hider) will tell you, flash hiding and muzzle breaking are mutually exclusive. They work on opposing principals. As far as the compensating effect of the slot positions on the A2??? It is insignificant from what I can tell.
    "You people have too much time on your hands." - scottryan

  9. #19
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    Cool.

    (If I weren't easy to get along with, I wouldn't use the name Fozzy Bear... )

    But just to point one thing out... I never said my max range was 10 meters with the 870. I mentioned my patterns were smaller than a diameter of the slug at the max range that can bee seen inside my house.



    That being settled...


    One last question please.

    Quote Originally Posted by demigod View Post
    ...
    No offense brother... but you're not the first guy to sight his engineering background (or other various education/experience) when backing up your basis for poor weapon selection. It's a common tactic on TOS.
    ...

    Maybe I'm just having a Brain-Freeze, but what's TOS?


    .

  10. #20
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    The Other Site.... AR15.com
    "You people have too much time on your hands." - scottryan

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