Verbal commands before engaging?

[hogfan1911]

I'm a CCW instructor, and a question has recently come up. I know what my answer is based on what I've studied/learned/taught up to now, but there are lots of folks on here more experienced than me. I'd love to hear some other opinions, either to back up my own or to let me know I'm wrong so I won't continue to pass incorrect info on to my students. The general scenario: you're in a store, CCW'ing, when an armed robbery begins. Gun waved around, verbal threats of violence, etc. The bad guy's back is to you, he doesn't even know you're there. Assume for whatever reason that retreating safely isn't an option. You're on the phone with 911 already. The situation escalates to the point that you reasonably believe you are now justified in using deadly force to prevent innocents from being killed/seriously injured. As you engage, do you yell any verbal commands such as "stop, drop the weapon, etc.", or do you just start shooting? Why?

[jenrick]

The situation escalates to the point that you reasonably believe you are now justified in using deadly force to prevent innocents from being killed/seriously injured.

Presuming the above, there is no requirement (at least in Texas) to issue a verbal warning before engaging. I personally think it's a bad idea to ALWAYS train to issue a verbal warning. Same with always training to pull the trigger when ever you come out of the holster. I'd say incorporating it in FoF or certain range drills would have merit, but that would be as far as I'd go. If I'm responding to a deadly force threat, the only sound and sight the bad guy needs to hear/see is muzzle flash.

-Jenrick

[Vash1023]

A verbal warning just makes you a priority target.

[Ready.Fire.Aim]

How about " YIPPEE KI YAY MOTHER FUTTER". It sounded good in Die Hard.

[CRAMBONE]

I have always figured if I have to pull it, it is because I will be using it. And if my life has taken that turn I'm not sure verbal commands will help the situation.

Verbal commands were always drummed into us (deployed guys) as part of EOF (escalation of force). I have heard and talked to people who drill it into training, because it might help reinforce to people in the vicinity that you are the "victim" and might help move any legal fallout in your favor.

[sboza]

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[Hmac]

I have heard and talked to people who drill it into training, because it might help reinforce to people in the vicinity that you are the "victim" and might help move any legal fallout in your favor.

Especially if you shoot the guy in the back.

[Ty_B]

No disrespect meant at all, especially since I have the utmost respect for people who teach others to shoot.

I've run into a lot of people who received very bad advice from well meaning CCW instructors - on the order of 'drag the body back into the house', etc. This is outside the curriculum for the class, and I don't think you should attempt to answer it. CCW classes are not gunfighting classes, and the students should understand that.

Further, other than the technical problem, there's the whole issue of whether shooting someone who isn't pointing a gun at you or your family is even worth it, regardless of what they plan to do to others. These are heady issues which, again, are not part of a simple CCW class.

That aside, one of the only things that Mas Ayoob wrote that I agree with is that civilians shouldn't issue challenges. If you need to shoot, shoot. If you don't, don't.

[7 RING]

If circumstances are such that you are legally and morally justified in applying deadly force, issuing a verbal challenge would be a tactical error.

Contact your local State's Attorney and ask for an opinion. If they won't give you an opinion, contact a very good criminal defense attorney and ask for their opinion. If there is any case law on it, make copies and keep it with your training materials. If you locate a specific case cite, please share it with us.

[gan1hck]

Especially if you shoot the guy in the back.

What if the guy was actively shooting someone else? and you are behind him?

I was taught to issue verbal commands, but seems unnecessary if someone is actively engaged in life threatening activity.