Slapping trigger

[Surf]

I have 3 distinct trigger pull types for handguns. I will note that there is a huge difference in how I might run say a standard 5.5 Glock trigger or a finely tuned and light breaking 1911 style straight draw trigger that has minimal pre-travel, minimal sear movement and a very short reset. So you really need to take the instructors background and weapon that they are shooting into consideration.

If you have an instructor that is heavily competition invested and runs a fine tuned trigger, especially the 1911 guys, you will very often find a trigger pull that I call the "flip and press". Some might call it "slapping the trigger" and it might appear to be just that, but as F2S mentions above it is a very sound and precise technique for advanced level shooters. On a minimal movement trigger this type of technique is very successful because you need minimal force to get past the sear movement to fire the weapon. Also an advanced level shooter will have far far less chance of disrupting the weapon because of their experience and straight to the rear press or slap. Basically with the "flip and press" or "press and flip" you are pressing the trigger rapidly on the pad and then using muscular tension, flipping the trigger finger forward and then pressing again. This allows for a very rapid trigger manipulation and by breaking trigger contact ensuring that you avoid trigger freeze. Also with a straight draw and light trigger the chances of pushing or pulling shots decrease greatly. Also as mentioned above, distance to target, acceptable hit zone size and par time to get off your shots is also a big factor.

Now with say a stock Glock trigger which is not a straight draw but a hinged trigger and a longer overall trigger travel, I do not generally advocate breaking trigger finger contact. I do not mind if the shooter runs the trigger back to near full extension, or beyond the noticed trigger reset point, but I do not want them breaking finger contact with the trigger. In reality, the faster you run even a stock Glock trigger the more I might support running well past reset, to avoid the trigger freeze which is more common at very fast trigger finger speeds.

Overall however you will definitely tend to see a difference in LE instructors and guys who may be competition based in how they teach. LE is heavily invested in the NRA teaching base and they teach trigger reset and no more. I think a good or well rounded instructor will teach methods that are suitable to the shooters needs and that includes the shooters weapon choices and their uses.

Here is a video on the topic. It is not a short video and I go a bit in depth, but the trigger finger is one of the biggest issues.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nlAmKLDT0E

[7 RING]

Slapping trigger (finger comes off of the trigger after the shot) or keeping contact until trigger reset for pistols and why?

I should have asked which pistol you are shooting and whether your focus will be on competitive or defensive pistol shooting before I answered.

[RamZar]

We were at a John McPhee (AKA Shrek) carbine class this past weekend where I got some of the best pistol instruction and diagnostics ever.

John is all about having a great grip (forces acting on multiple axes while putting as much meat on the pistol with as little daylight) and "slapping" the trigger. He and one of his assistant instructor Bryan (AKA B-Monkey) demonstrated that the trigger does not matter much by using a screw driver passed through the trigger and while Bryan gripped the pistol and aligned the sights John would karate chop the screw driver and thus triggering a round. Be aware that you can damage your trigger through excessive use this way.

John mentioned how they too got Rob Leatham to work his pistol wonders with them and especially "slapping" the trigger. John said that it's not just for the competition triggers (< 2lbs). The whole idea being that you can shoot that much faster when firing multiple rounds in a salvo without trigger freeze.

I use the Vogel Trigger for my Glock 17/34. It's just a highly polished factory trigger breaking at about 3-4 lbs.

Some have mentioned getting worse when "slapping" the trigger. This is true but like most major changes you need many repetitions before it can be judged. I remember when I first learnt to shoot pistols I was shown the old revolver grip and Weaver stance. No biggie and I got to be a pretty good shot. However, it did not help me advance or for multiple shots and multiple targets. I changed to thumbs parallel and isosceles stance. Anyway, my marksmanship went down and stayed down. I was about to give up but ammo was just $10 for 100 rounds of factory 9mm at Walmart so I stuck with it. It took thousands of repetitions but eventually I surpassed my old scale!

For slapping the trigger I'll probably resort to a mixture of dry and live fire and judge for myself but only after thousands of repetitions.

[theblackknight]

I should have asked which pistol you are shooting and whether your focus will be on competitive or defensive pistol shooting before I answered.

How does the venue at all matter?

[theblackknight]

John mentioned how they too got Rob Leatham to work his pistol wonders with them and especially "slapping" the trigger. John said that it's not just for the competition triggers (< 2lbs). The whole idea being that you can shoot that much faster when firing multiple rounds in a salvo without trigger freeze.

This^

Go to 5:10
http://www.youtube.com/user/actiontarget?v=YLRxohRdIys

[Bulletdog]

I started taking classes in '96 with Gunsite, Surefire Institute, and FTA instructors. They teach slack take up upon initial contact with the trigger, press, follow through, reset, repeat. No reason to fully release the trigger or remove the trigger finger between shots. For fast strings I was taught to simply "compress" the time frame for all of these thing to happen. I mainly shoot Glocks and simply go back and forth from press-click to release-click. Happens very fast and accurately with practice. I have never experienced or even heard of "trigger freeze". I've been sending thousands of rounds down range this way every year since then.

This "slapping" the trigger goes against everything I was taught. I've shot a few 1911s with some really nicely done triggers and it doesn't seem like this technique would improve my ability with them either. I've never fired a true "race" gun, and frankly anything Rob Leatham does is so far out of my ballpark, that any comparison would seem to be of limited value. What Rob (or other shooters of his caliber) does with his multi-thousand dollar super-duper highly modified race gun on the competition field, has very little practical value for regular old me with my box stock Glock out of an IWB holster running defensive scenarios with a friend or two on my local range.

[Failure2Stop]

Thinking that fully releasing the trigger during reset is only applicable for high end raceguns is incorrect. On the other side of the coin, one must have solid practical fundamentals to benefit from the full release. And to put yet another side to the discussion, it only takes one failure to release to reset while shooting at speed to learn that releasing only to the tactile click of trigger reset can and will fail at some point.

There can be great discussion of whether or not the technique works for you, but the fact of the matter is not that it doesn't work, but rather if the shooter is ready for it or not.

ETA: it also requires that the shooter be familiar with "reset on recoil", so if you are still on the "press, follow-through, reset", you aren't there yet.

[7 RING]

Thinking that fully releasing the trigger during reset is only applicable for high end raceguns is incorrect. On the other side of the coin, one must have solid practical fundamentals to benefit from the full release. And to put yet another side to the discussion, it only takes one failure to release to reset while shooting at speed to learn that releasing only to the tactile click of trigger reset can and will fail at some point.

There can be great discussion of whether or not the technique works for you, but the fact of the matter is not that it doesn't work, but rather if the shooter is ready for it or not.

ETA: it also requires that the shooter be familiar with "reset on recoil", so if you are still on the "press, follow-through, reset", you aren't there yet.

Excellent post. Teaching the trigger slap technique to a beginner would likely be counterproductive in my opinion, but a technique an experienced shooter may find beneficial.

[Bulletdog]

Thinking that fully releasing the trigger during reset is only applicable for high end raceguns is incorrect. On the other side of the coin, one must have solid practical fundamentals to benefit from the full release.

So you are saying that there is a benefit to fully releasing the trigger, even breaking contact with the trigger, after each shot? In contrast to what I've been taught for the last 17 years? I'm failing to see how extra unecessary movement of the trigger helps anyone regardless of fundamentals or perceived skill level. Seems to me that less travel and movement would be a benefit. I'm not trying to argue with someone who has more experience than me, I'm asking for an explanation of this concept beyond what has already been posted.

[Bulletdog]

And to put yet another side to the discussion, it only takes one failure to release to reset while shooting at speed to learn that releasing only to the tactile click of trigger reset can and will fail at some point.

In 17 years, tens of thousands of rounds, around two dozen handguns, a couple dozen classes, hundreds of practice sessions at the range, this has never happened to me. Not once. Forgive me for questioning this, but is this common? I've never seen fellow students have this issue either.