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Owner/Instructor at Semper Paratus Arms
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SemperParatusArms/
Semper Paratus Arms AR15 Armorer Course http://www.semperparatusarms.com/cou...-registration/
M4C Misc. Training and Course Announcements- http://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=141
Master Armorer/R&D at SIONICS Weapon Systems- http://sionicsweaponsystems.com
How's it going everyone? New guy here...
There's a lot of controversy surrounding this company so I figure I'll post my experience with these guys and hopefully it will clear a few things up. I placed an order with Red Rock Ordnance in mid-march when BCGs were unavailable elsewhere. I figured "holy crap! A BCG for a decent price from a company that's trying to fight the price gougers!" I was skeptical since no one had ever heard of them before but since I really needed the part to finish my AR, I took the bait anyway. I've been following this thread and others like it for about a month and a half and watching Palmetto State Armory like a hawk in case another BCG showed up.
I watched Red Rock's facebook activity and threads like this one and when everything added up, I too began to suspect that they either got swamped or they're running a ponzi scheme. Turns out we may be wrong.
A BCG appeared on Palmetto State Armory so I ordered it. Then I called Red Rock to cancel my order. Now it's time for some hard facts...
- Someone actually picked up the phone when I called. They were surprisingly helpful...
- They tracked down my order by number very quickly. Regardless of actual product, this suggests that they ARE trying to run a business and are organized as such.
- My refund was back in my account later that day. I had previously confirmed their validity with Pay Pal. They have no complaints filed against them with regard to transactions. Pay Pal will enforce the 45 day refund rule and Red Rock says they will honor the rule afterwards; just be sure to call them during THEIR business hours, as they are not a 24/7 outfit.
I had a brief (and surprisingly polite) discussion with a member of their staff about what's been going on lately. The rep told me a lot about what THEY are going through and based on what I've seen so far, I'd say we are dealing with a company that tried to do something really cool but bit off more than they could chew. Now they're catching flak from everyone who's order is delayed.
If you ask to cancel your order, they apparently will. If you give em a rash of $h!t, they'll treat you like dirt right back. I'm new here but I'm not in anyway, affiliated with Red Rock. If you have any questions about my transaction, let me know. In the mean time, PSA (I don't work for them either) will sometimes have BCGs in stock once every one or two weeks at random.
It appears you got out not a day too soon. The summary from tos is very telling of just who you were dealing with:
Lets review
1) Paying upfront to a paypal escrow service that paypal has denied having any part of
2) Waiting months for a product that has never been shown, shot, fired or reviewed
3) Almost a month late on the initial batch and still no proof they even have a working product.
4) Blame placed on customers, calguns, arfcom, and other mfgs
5) Showing a picture out of spite of an uncompleted carrier without a bolt that was supposedly ready to ship to a customer than had cancelled and called out the company, even though those with order numbers lower than the individual had not yet shipped
6) Unable to get a picture of the product from the "other shop locations"
7) Fake picture passed off in an email update, when called on it it was just a mistake
8) Attacking customers on Facebook, deleting and banning people who question RRO
9) Only customer who has supposedly received one of these carriers joined facebook, liked a few pages, and wrote on RROs wall within the hour
10) Finally posting a BCG although there are supposedly "a bunch on the shelf" while conspicuously hiding a few key parts of the carrier in both pictures (IMO they just went and purchased a nickel boron BCG)
Nah, that's not why. Please see above.
1) Paying upfront to a paypal escrow service that paypal has denied having any part of
----- Clarification, Pay Pal does honor/enforce the agreement. I think the term 'escrow' was simply a misnomer for pay pal's refund policy.
2) Waiting months for a product that has never been shown, shot, fired or reviewed
3) Almost a month late on the initial batch and still no proof they even have a working product.
----- There is no evidence of completed product because there is no completed product. They are still waiting on gas rings.
4) Blame placed on customers, calguns, arfcom, and other mfgs
5) Showing a picture out of spite of an uncompleted carrier without a bolt that was supposedly ready to ship to a customer than had cancelled and called out the company, even though those with order numbers lower than the individual had not yet shipped
6) Unable to get a picture of the product from the "other shop locations"
7) Fake picture passed off in an email update, when called on it it was just a mistake
8) Attacking customers on Facebook, deleting and banning people who question RRO
----- A poor response to bad publicity. According to the rep I spoke to, they have no ETA because of the halted construction. Simply put, they bit off more than they can chew. When the public lashed out, they panicked and lashed back.
9) Only customer who has supposedly received one of these carriers joined facebook, liked a few pages, and wrote on RROs wall within the hour
10) Finally posting a BCG although there are supposedly "a bunch on the shelf" while conspicuously hiding a few key parts of the carrier in both pictures (IMO they just went and purchased a nickel boron BCG)
----- Stalling tactic for those who don't realize that construction is halted.
Your options:
- Wait until day 40-43 to see if the parts issue clears up. Ask for your refund if you don't get a shipping notice by day 43.
- Go buy a BCG from another vendor and cancel your Red Rock order.
- Wait it out with blind faith and 'pray' you get a BCG from them before they fold due to the bad publicity.
If you do want your refund, I recommend using the following steps (in order) until your money is given back. From my observation, this is the smoothest path.
(1) send an email
(2) call them and be polite
(3) call Pay Pal and file a dispute
(4) file a claim with your credit card company if the first 3 steps fail and/or you are past 45 days.
I'm not attacking you Gauus so please dont take it that way but I have a real problem with #2. These guys have the balls to take someone's money and offer no proof of product, ETA etc. then, they expect the customer to call and "politely" ask for their money back? **** THAT. At this point, every one that placed an order has had their money stolen.
Last edited by yellow50; 04-16-13 at 12:44.
No offense taken.
I agree with you; this whole situation stinks. But I simply can't ignore the fact that when someone has you at a disadvantage (in this case has $187 of your money) , it is unwise to provoke them by starting off with a hostile tone.
I'm not telling anyone here to start offering lip service to these guys but I think a more diplomatic approach will get a better response than what they perceive as 'more trouble' with the customers.
I told the woman straight up; "I was going to buy your product, but I read about your delays. Then I found this BCG from another vendor..." She was so cool about it that I was surprised anyone was having problems with the company.
The bottom line is this; They're essentially a mom and pop shop trying to jump into mass production and it backfired on them when they were unable to get parts. They are trying every trick in the book to stall you so you don't go to places like PSA and CTD. No, it's NOT right but they ARE trying to make a buck.
They're stuck and they know it. Meanwhile, they're constantly being asked "is it ready yet?"
They've handled the facebook/email thing very poorly from what I've read but in the end, if you're not happy, just call and ask for your money back and be done with them. If they don't comply, file a dispute and turn up the heat.
P.S. If anyone doesn't believe what I'm saying. I can try to post a copy of my refund email from Pay Pal. It's your call guys.
Last edited by Gauss Rifle; 04-16-13 at 13:14.
Why are you repeating their talking points?
In tired of all the rhetoric, in general. The reason there is doubt is because a legit operation would have notified all paying customers when they realized they would be on indefinite hold, that product would not ship A.) on time, B.) if at all, and would have offered indefinite back order or an immediate refund. Anything else is bullcrap, and dishonest business. At this point, RRO has earned every bit of hell they're receiving.
Sent from my Motorola brick phone
Funny; when I called them yesterday, this is EXACTLY what they told me.
Why they use facebook the way the do, is beyond my understanding. All I know is that some of you are making this way too complicated. If you don't like what's happening, just call and ask for a damn refund! The woman said to me, word for word, "If you don't want to wait, we understand. We will refund your money."
You can believe whatever you want. I've already received my refund AND ordered a BGC elsewhere...
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