Police mag pouch placement

[Stretz Tactical Inc]

On the recomendation of Larry Vickers, back in January at his advanced pistol marksmanship class, I moved my double magazine pouch from horizontal on my strong side to vertical on my weak side.

Larry was studying my gunbelt as soon as he layed eyes on it within minutes of hoping out of his truck. I felt (and welcomed) his critique coming. He said he didn't know where that method of carring magazines came from, as retrieving the magazines from that position wasn't a "natural movement". He recomended they be carried on the weakside vertically. He recomended 2 pouches: 1 open top and one with a flap. The open top would be for speed reloads (he pointed out that if I needed to reload, I would probably only need too reload once) and the one with the flap, would be secured if a got into a physical altercation with a criminal and I wouldn't have too worry about loosing both magazines.

I did a google search and found this open top, double magazine pouch, with a retention screw: http://www.copsplus.com/partnum2011.php I tested it "dry" at home for a few weeks to break in the leather and then on the range today. I like it a lot. 1) Reloads are a lot quicker, especially when hitting the slide release as Larry recommends (as opposed to over the top release). 2) It is a lot smoother - you don't have 3 fingers grasping at a snap and then regrasping for the magazine when the snap is opened. Your also just drawing straight up, not out to the side and up - speed is the economy of motion. 3) the mags are snug in the pouch and while it's still new, I have no fear of loosing a mag as it breaks in more. If it loosens up, simply tighten up the screw - if it's too tight - loosen it.

I would recommend any officer that wouldn't be restricted by department policy too give it a shot. You might like it, I did. Thanks again Larry!

[Patrick Aherne]

On the recomendation of Larry Vickers, back in January at his advanced pistol marksmanship class, I moved my double magazine pouch from horizontal on my strong side to vertical on my weak side.

Larry was studying my gunbelt as soon as he layed eyes on it within minutes of hoping out of his truck. I felt (and welcomed) his critique coming. He said he didn't know where that method of carring magazines came from, as retrieving the magazines from that position wasn't a "natural movement".

Take your left hand and grab your unit, yeah that unit. How are you holding it? How much time do you spend holding it, that way? I wasn't there and I don't know what LAV may or may not have said, but just like he thinks about things and the reason why we do things with guns, I damn sure know that dropping your unit and raising your hand about 3" leaves it: directly in front of a horizontally-placed mag pouch on your strong side.

He recomended they be carried on the weakside vertically. He recomended 2 pouches: 1 open top and one with a flap. The open top would be for speed reloads (he pointed out that if I needed to reload, I would probably only need too reload once) and the one with the flap, would be secured if a got into a physical altercation with a criminal and I wouldn't have too worry about loosing both magazines.

Open top mag pouches work great until you are in a knock-down, drag-out fight. Yes, they are faster on the square range. Flapped mag carriers are the way to go for uniformed patrol.

[Stretz Tactical Inc]

[QUOTE=Patrick Aherne;136033]Take your left hand and grab your unit, yeah that unit. How are you holding it? How much time do you spend holding it, that way? I wasn't there and I don't know what LAV may or may not have said, but just like he thinks about things and the reason why we do things with guns, I damn sure know that dropping your unit and raising your hand about 3" leaves it: directly in front of a horizontally-placed mag pouch on your strong side.

Pat,
It's like any thing else. It's not "the way", it's "a way". It works for me, at least so far. A man with a tremendous amount of training and experience recomended something. I listened with an open mind, tried it and so far I like it and it works for me. I don't think Larry can walk on water and I wouldn't follow him if he jumped off a bridge, I just listen and try things for myself. Thats with Larry or anyone else I've taken classes from. There are a lot of things I have discarded as well as taken from other instructors. If it works for you great, if not, thats fine too.

Open top mag pouches work great until you are in a knock-down, drag-out fight. Yes, they are faster on the square range. Flapped mag carriers are the way to go for uniformed patrol.[/

As I said in my post, Larry recomended one open top for speed reloads and one with a flap for retention. The model pouch I bought, covers 75 % of the magazine body and has a retention screw that can be adjusted from snug fit to impossible too remove. I have also been a Police Officer for 11 years - 2 1/2 of those years were spent in the NYPD. I have been in my share of "knock-down, drag-out" fights while on duty. I can tell you on numerous occassions, I have seen magazine pouch flaps come undone and seen magazines on the ground. With what I have seen with this pouch so far, I believe in it. Time will tell and I'll post here if something changes my opinion.

[NCPatrolAR]

We were taught that the horizontal carry was the cool-guy method since it allowed you to draw mags if you were wearing armor. Personaly, I find the method akward and prefer to carry my mags vertically. Plus, it gives me more room on my belt for other gear I have to carry.

When it comes to the speed reload, I tuck a flap on my pouches when doing a warrant service for the reason Larry cites. When doing other functions I keep both flaps closed. When it comes to mag pouches; I use a simple Tactical Tailor dual mag pouch. The kydex insert helps to retain my mag should I be in a "knock down" fight. And if I am in a fight where I lose both mags in addition to shooting my primary dry, I always have a BUG and knives to fall back on.

[Joe R.]

I've been wearing open top mag pouches on my duty belt for about 15 years. Been in more then a few physical altercations in that time and never lost a mag. Buy a good pouch, keep the tension screws fairly tight and I doubt you'll have a problem. If it gets to a point where I need a spare mag I don't want to be screwing around with flaps to get to it.

ETA: I use the Safariland 079 series pouches. They sit a little higher and provide even better access to the mags.

[R Moran]

I've seem some pretty screwed up methods of carrying mags. When you point it out, I usually get some variation of "it works for me" as I watch the guy do all kinds of contortions with his hand to get the mag out, just to prove me wrong.

A few yaers back, Paul Howe recomended the best compromise between speed and retention was to run 1 mag pouch open, & the others closed. This was with an AR, but I don't see why it won't work for a pistol.

Open top pouches.. I'll quote a former training LT of mine, a retired APD SWAT operator and survivor/winner of numerous deadly force confrontations.

"there is no reason to have a flap on your mag pouch, except the one on your back with extra mags."

Just about every APD officer I've ever seen had an open top mag pouch up front, if he had a 1911(many of them do) they had a single mag pouch for a double stack with two 1911 mags on the rear of their belt.

For about 3 years I ran an Eagle kydex lined open top pouch for a G22. And, while I was never in a "knock down, drag out fight" I did run it thru multiple courses and competiitons that included negotiating obstacles and other run and gun type events. IE: the O course's for the DOE SRT course and the the APD SWAT course, SWAT round-up, etc. Never lost a mag.

Bob

APD: Albuquerque Police Department

[TUNNEL RAT 33]

i've run my mag pouches both horizontally and vertically and have also used pouches that were open topped and with flaps . basically for me i have to agree that its what you're comfortable with . i have been i several brawls on duty as well as a few foot persuits and have never really had any problems except for one time using an open topped single mag pouch while in plain clothes that wasnt fitted for the spare mag i had in it . yes it came flying out as i chugged down the street . my partner who was behind me picked it up with no ill effects . i do have to say to the new guys out there that change their gear around on their belts once they get out of the academy and want to customize their belts - go to the range and practice your reloading technique if they change around the mag pouches. its kinda funny watching someone reach for a fresh mag and it not be in the location that they are used too , and they have to hunt for it . ( in training of course)

[sff70]

As a patrol officer with 14 yrs LE experience, I've been in my share of fights, foot pursuits, etc. and was originally trained in the use of vertical mag pouches that had flaps that secured with snaps, in the conventional manner.

At some point, I was "encouraged" to transition to horizontal pouches carried at 2 oclock.

Later on, I when able to decide for myself, I found that I was consistently faster with vertical open top vertical pouches carried on the support side at 11 oclock.

Since I carry a low capacity pistol (singlestack), I find it very important to reload fast.

I've used open top pouches for about the last 6 yrs (Blade tech quad pouch, but now Eagle FB triple pouch).

I've decided that the Eagle FB pouch is the way to go. About about a year, the Bladetech pouch reached the limit of its retention and would not apply further tension, as the plastic had warped. While performing shooting drills lying on my back, mags would fall out. Similar experience with another Blade tech pouch provided under warranty.

Bianchi offers an open top pouch to fit double stack mags (they may also make a single stack mag version) with a tension screw that works good for several of my guys. Blue loctite is a requirement, though, to prevent the tension screw from loosening.

[ToddG]

I've seem some pretty screwed up methods of carrying mags. When you point it out, I usually get some variation of "it works for me" as I watch the guy do all kinds of contortions with his hand to get the mag out, just to prove me wrong.

One thing I always mention in classes is that while there are few things that are absolutely always right or wrong, there is a proper way to carry mags. More importantly, there is an improper way: the venerable "one mag pointing forward, one mag pointing backwards" dual pouches.

A couple years ago I was teaching a class for a fed agency's PFIs and when I delivered that line, one of the older instructors made a big point about the fact that he did, in fact, use that "one forward one backwards" method ... but he didn't "recommend it to his agents because it requires extra training and familiarity." He very politely agreed that this arrangement could lead to confusion under stress for most people, but he, of course, was far too experienced to make the mistake.

He then proceeded to screw up his reload about, coincidentally, half the time when we were working on slidelock reloads. This was, of course, also not his fault because he trained never to shoot his gun dry in a fight, because he counted rounds, you see.

This same gentleman was the only person out of 50 instructors from the agency who wrote me a negative critique, pointing out that my lack of LE background made my instruction unsuitable and inapplicable to "law enforcement combat."

But I'm not bitter!

[Patrick Aherne]

"there is no reason to have a flap on your mag pouch, except the one on your back with extra mags."

Just about every APD officer I've ever seen had an open top mag pouch up front, if he had a 1911(many of them do) they had a single mag pouch for a double stack with two 1911 mags on the rear of their belt.

For about 3 years I ran an Eagle kydex lined open top pouch for a G22. And, while I was never in a "knock down, drag out fight" I did run it thru multiple courses and competiitons that included negotiating obstacles and other run and gun type events. IE: the O course's for the DOE SRT course and the the APD SWAT course, SWAT round-up, etc. Never lost a mag.

Bob

Bob,

Perhaps I should have been more clear in my post. I was talking about the commonly worn leather or Safariland pleather holders that most cops wear. In my experience, these loosen up with time and readily shed mags in adverse conditions.

I have not lost an AR mag out of an Eagle FB pouch; I imagine that you would not lose one out of a pistol FB pouch, either. However, for those of us who have to wear shined, black baksetweave leather, or the Safariland pleather, flaps are pretty much a necessity to prevent the mags from coming loose.

There is a new Bianchi Accumold Elite open top carrier that has a tension screw, but I have no experience with it, given my previous experiences with colleagues open-top issues.

If I could wear Eagle FB pouches on duty, my opinion might change.