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Thread: Expensive lesson learned from fire.

  1. #91
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    Anyone who has Travelers need to think about a change based on Ick's post... Total crap...

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel View Post
    Ok so now I need to know if their is another professional person or company that will check out my AR and possibly rebuild it for me?
    It is my experience of late that most shops are SUPER BUSY, the good ones even more so. Your best bet might be to wait a few months and get into a good one. ... I'd love to be proved wrong though..

  3. #93
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    Sorry about your loss


    On this subject, You get 2500$ of free insurance with an NRA membership, my renters insurance covers 3k (USAA), and I have an extra 3k "valuable property" insurance on my carbine (covers EVERYTHING). This extra coverage cost me 3-4$ a month and total it covers 8500$ for a mere 4$ a month over what I would spend anyways. It is a pretty good way to go for anyone needing some coverage.
    Quote Originally Posted by Carolyn Mcarthy
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  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ick View Post
    Just saw this thread. It is sad for me to hear about your losses. I know from personal experience that kind of fire can be quite a devastating experience.

    Nothing you can do about your snakes and furry friends, and that is sad. I can imagine that was the worst part of all.

    As you said, buying insurance can be a great idea. Hopefully this will help you for NEXT time:

    The standard homeowners policy language is designed for the average joe with one handgun or one hunting rifle. If you are one of those guys with more of a collection than that.... this thread is for you. The way I see it, you have 4 options. They are listed below along with some other notes.

    Option 1, let your standard homeowners policy cover the guns
    Problems:
    --Your base homewners policy only covers your guns for fire and other limited perils, PLUS there is generally a limit on "theft" of anywhere from $2,000 to $3,000 depending on your company.
    --There may be problems collecting a fair value for collectible price, antique value, sentimental value, rarity value, etc.
    --Most insurance companies have these limitations on guns AND accessories, not just guns. So keep in mind that your $3,000 Zeiss scope may be INCLUDED in these limitations.
    Advantage:
    Already included in your premium so no cost.
    Ick's notes:
    If you have a lot of value this is a very poor way to protect your firearms and related equipment.

    Option 2, purchase a higher theft amount on your homeowners
    Problems:
    --Your base homewners policy will STILL only cover your guns for fire and other limited perils, SUBJECT to a limit on "theft" based on what you purchased.
    --There STILL will be problems collecting a fair value for collectible price, antique value, sentimental value, rarity value, etc.
    --Accessories may also be included within this limitatoin, so don't forget to consider the value of accessories that could also be stolen or damaged in some way.
    Advantage:
    Simple and cheap.
    Cost:
    Generally nominal cost, A buddy of mine said said a $5,000 limit cost $5 a year on his State Farm policy.
    Ick's notes:
    If you have a lot of value this is a very poor way to protect your firearms and related equipment.


    Option 3, purchase separate insurance from NRA "collector not shooter" program
    Problems:
    --The policy language that I have read from this program is limiting and possibly would result in no coverage for most guys guns, so read the fine print. It doesn't sound like a clean transaction to me. Sounds like you are paying for something and not getting much coverage.
    Advantage:
    --Can you insure the items for a true fair value a collectible price, antique value, sentimental value, rarity value, etc. under this program? I would assume so, but check the fine print.
    Cost:
    --Cost is $6.70 per $1,000 of value which is good, but I have serious concerns about policy language though.
    Ick's notes:
    If you have a lot of value this is a very poor way to protect your firearms and related equipment especially when there is a very broad option available for only a few dollars more.

    Option 4, purchase separate scheduled insurance from your homeowner program or the NRA's broader program.
    Problems:
    --You likely need to get some kind of written appraisal from a local gun broker. This is generally NOT a big deal.
    Advantage:
    --The coverage is very broad and covers all sorts of things like flood, dropping the firearm down a cliff, realizing 3 hours later you left it by a tree after field dressing an animal and it is not there when you return, etc. This kind of broad language covering the firearms and accessores can be really important, so don't miss this advantage.
    --You CAN insure the items for a true fair value a collectible price, antique value, sentimental value, rarity value, etc. under this program.
    Cost:
    --Ick's homeowners in PA with local agent and Pennsylvania company is $11 per $1,000 of value, I have three other companies at about the same cost.
    --NRA's program is $17.40 per $1,000 of value Cha-CHING!
    --A buddy of mine has State Farm in Texas with local agent at $17 to $22 per $1,000 of value (This is a VERY high price, not sure why State Farm is so high).
    Ick's notes:
    Most of my customers choose NOT to list every firearm and accessory they own. Generally they list the most expensive and valuable firearms, optics, lasers, etc. this way.


    Ick's Other Notes
    Caution: Some company people are LIBERAL ANTI-GUN so don't be surprised if you have follow-up questions about "Why does the insured have a howitzer?" Personally I have yet to have a company make a big deal out of anything my customers buy, but I have heard of someone having trouble at some point in the past. Case in point:


    Keep in mind, I have found this ---^ to be the EXCEPTION, not the rule.

    You SHOULD keep a book on all your firearms including photos, invoices, serial numbers, NFA tax stamps, etc. in a SEPARATE location. It is also a good idea to keep any firearms history in here for things like "added new trigger" or history like "This weapon used in so-and-so conflict by my grandfather William Schmortz" or whatever.



    OK, so I am a little anal about documentation. Fortunately there are some huge long-term benefits of that kind of record keeping.

    You make very good points...i just hate having that much info on my guns in one place. I typically destroy all receipts, paperwork, pictures, etc... Except my stamps.

    Too much tinfoil? Maybe.

  5. #95
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    I keep every single receipt for guns and gun parts, as well as photos and NFA paperwork in organized binders and keep that in a very secure commercial safe. Holy crap, those insurance rates are ridiculous. A high-end AR-15 outfitted with gear and optics is easily pushing $5k. A high-end bolt-action rifle outfitted with gear and optics is north of $10k.
    Last edited by Cesiumsponge; 02-13-13 at 00:05.
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  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoulderthinggoesup View Post
    Sorry about your loss


    On this subject, You get 2500$ of free insurance with an NRA membership, my renters insurance covers 3k (USAA), and I have an extra 3k "valuable property" insurance on my carbine (covers EVERYTHING). This extra coverage cost me 3-4$ a month and total it covers 8500$ for a mere 4$ a month over what I would spend anyways. It is a pretty good way to go for anyone needing some coverage.
    I too have USAA and each one of my guns are covered to their full value. Its pricey, but its worth it for me. They are all irreplaceable.
    Im getting a safe today or tomorrow.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoulderthinggoesup View Post
    Sorry about your loss


    On this subject, You get 2500$ of free insurance with an NRA membership, my renters insurance covers 3k (USAA), and I have an extra 3k "valuable property" insurance on my carbine (covers EVERYTHING). This extra coverage cost me 3-4$ a month and total it covers 8500$ for a mere 4$ a month over what I would spend anyways. It is a pretty good way to go for anyone needing some coverage.
    Shoulderthinggoesup

    A few things on this just to make sure you don't get an unfortunate surprise:

    NRA membership free insurance
    --You have to go to their "benefits activation site" in order to have the coverage, it does not automatically accrue to you when you pay your membership.
    --It seems firearms $2,500 or over must be scheduled, I would imagine that is a sloppy use of "terms" and they mean scopes and other accessories as well.
    --You can't get to the details of the coverage without clicking on the "activate coverage" link. The whole process makes me feel uncomfortable. Go ahead and try it, I felt a bit like I was talking to a used car salesman.
    --would love to hear a firsthand account of someone that collected from this and had a great experience. No, not someone the insurance company dug up, someone from M4carbine.net
    --I am glad to hear you are convinced that coverage exists and will cover you. Before you post I figured the whole thing was likely some kind of swindle like all of the "free insurance" credit card companies offer... that turns out to be garbage or "not really free".


    3k "valuable property" insurance
    Make sure you talk to your agent. Usually that kind of insurance is for items that do not have a specific insurance category.... so you can't depend on it, for example, for jewelry, guns, or other items that are normally described. If you got some kind of CSR that "told you" it would cover it... make sure you get a licensed AGENT to describe the coverage and tell you that it covers unscheduled firearms and equipment. Document your conversation to substantiate your understanding including date, time, person who told you, exact statement, etc. This is important: A customer service representative statements don't help you at claim time when you are looking at policy language that directly contradicts what you were told. You lose in that kind of scenario, every time. Policy language is KING unless you have overwhelmingly compelling evidence of a statement made by a LICENSED agent.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by M_Rapp View Post
    Anyone who has Travelers need to think about a change based on Ick's post... Total crap...
    M_Rapp,

    I heard that there was a whole other side to this story, so don't be too hard on Travelers. That document sure doesn't look good, and it irritated me when I read it... but something tells me this guy had a some sort of irresponsible claim (like an ND or something) and the company was scared to death of the number of zeroes behind the NEXT ND claim. They were trying everything they could to get away from this costly customer.

    I have not heard of a wanton disregard for the 2a from Travelers... which leads me to believe this was a specific case with specific problems rather than a poor 2A attitude.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atlshaun View Post
    You make very good points...i just hate having that much info on my guns in one place. I typically destroy all receipts, paperwork, pictures, etc... Except my stamps.

    Too much tinfoil? Maybe.

    Boy, I think you are exactly right Atlshaun. There certainly is a trade-off between having documentation vs. keeping private information out of reach. Certainly a personal issue. Good point.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel View Post
    Ok so now I need to know if their is another professional person or company that will check out my AR and possibly rebuild it for me?

    I haven't read through all the past posts but I thought we had volunteers in line. Isn't there someone here who can help him restore the gun, or at least offer relevant feedback? If it should be declared a total loss, that advice is welcome too so long as it's accurate.

    Sort of why I suggested the separate thread once you got going, think we may get lost in the shuffle here due to the side storage and safety related discussions but we'll see.

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