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Thread: Expensive lesson learned from fire.

  1. #131
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    Be sure and get everything insurance in writing. All the homeowners insurance that I've checked have the $5000 maximum for firearms, etc.. and also have a "per item" maximum. Another place they bite you is on replacement, requiring that one purchase the replacement item and afterwards submit a claim for reimbursement. They don't insure a "dollar amount" like the policies for collectables do. NRA insurance is similar to the collectable policies, but possibly a little more expensive.

    Insurance agents are very crafty when it comes to divulging the fine print. JMO.. Ron
    Ain't no pockets on a shroud..

  2. #132
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    so sorry for your loss of your animals I have a question if you are a member of the NRA I would check with them standard membership gives you insurance on your weapons I believe up to 2500

    Just looked om my membership page
    Insurance Type:
    $5,000.00 Accidental Death & Dismemberment
    $2,500.00 ArmsCare coverage
    Last edited by warpigM-4; 02-18-13 at 11:10.


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  3. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunzilla View Post
    As for INSURANCE, your homeowners insurance should cover up to a certain amount for your guns. My insurance covers up to $5000 for my guns, it won't replace everything I have in the safe but it will cover the 2 ARs.
    Sounds like you are talking about the THEFT limitation... no a limitation on firearms for "fire". Most policies do not have a limitation for FIRE... but for theft THEY DO. There is most often no coverage for, as an example, "mysterious disappearance", dropping the rifle down a cliff, leaving in the woods after dark, etc.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kokopelli View Post
    Be sure and get everything insurance in writing. All the homeowners insurance that I've checked have the $5000 maximum for firearms, etc.. and also have a "per item" maximum. Another place they bite you is on replacement, requiring that one purchase the replacement item and afterwards submit a claim for reimbursement. They don't insure a "dollar amount" like the policies for collectables do. NRA insurance is similar to the collectable policies, but possibly a little more expensive.

    Insurance agents are very crafty when it comes to divulging the fine print. JMO.. Ron
    Again, this is likely the THEFT limitation you mention here. The statement about "replacement" being required is partially true most of the time. Hence why I did the summary of insurance I posted earlier.

    The "crafty" comment you mare are interesting to me for several reasons. Truth be told a lot of agents have NO IDEA about firearms or even FIREARM INSURANCE, which is quite disappointing to me personally. Therefore, when you call your agent you get all kind of garbage answers because the "do not know" and often try and B.S. their way through an explanation. If you get that kind of feeling then your agent doesn't know what he is talking about. Get another agent. Don't plan on people that answer the phone at 1-800 number insurance companies to know what in the world they are talking about either. I would include USAA 800 number people in that as well. Most of them are clueless on this issue.

    Again, hence why I typed the summary. So YOU can know what your options are before you call.

    Quote Originally Posted by warpigM-4 View Post
    so sorry for your loss of your animals I have a question if you are a member of the NRA I would check with them standard membership gives you insurance on your weapons I believe up to 2500

    Just looked om my membership page
    Insurance Type:
    $5,000.00 Accidental Death & Dismemberment
    $2,500.00 ArmsCare coverage
    Be careful, you don't just get the coverage automatically... and you can't go looking for coverage AFTER the claim. So unless you do something about it now BEFORE something happens you will still be out of luck and have no coverage.

    DO you HOMEWORK or find an insurance agent that knows what the heck is going on with FIREARM insurance. Unfortunately most agents are clueless.
    Last edited by Ick; 02-18-13 at 13:26.

  4. #134
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    The standard homeowners policy language is designed for the average joe with one handgun or one hunting rifle. If you are one of those guys with more of a collection than that.... this thread is for you. The way I see it, you have 4 options. They are listed below along with some other notes.

    Option 1, let your standard homeowners policy cover the guns
    Problems:
    --Your base homewners policy only covers your guns for fire and other limited perils, PLUS there is generally a limit on "theft" of anywhere from $2,000 to $3,000 depending on your company.
    --There may be problems collecting a fair value for collectible price, antique value, sentimental value, rarity value, etc.
    --Most insurance companies have these limitations on guns AND accessories, not just guns. So keep in mind that your $3,000 Zeiss scope may be INCLUDED in these limitations.
    Advantage:
    Already included in your premium so no cost.
    Ick's notes:
    If you have a lot of value this is a very poor way to protect your firearms and related equipment.

    Option 2, purchase a higher theft amount on your homeowners
    Problems:
    --Your base homewners policy will STILL only cover your guns for fire and other limited perils, SUBJECT to a limit on "theft" based on what you purchased.
    --There STILL will be problems collecting a fair value for collectible price, antique value, sentimental value, rarity value, etc.
    --Accessories may also be included within this limitatoin, so don't forget to consider the value of accessories that could also be stolen or damaged in some way.
    Advantage:
    Simple and cheap.
    Cost:
    Generally nominal cost, A buddy of mine said said a $5,000 limit cost $5 a year on his State Farm policy.
    Ick's notes:
    If you have a lot of value this is a very poor way to protect your firearms and related equipment.


    Option 3, purchase separate insurance from NRA "collector not shooter" program
    Problems:
    --The policy language that I have read from this program is limiting and possibly would result in no coverage for most guys guns, so read the fine print. It doesn't sound like a clean transaction to me. Sounds like you are paying for something and not getting much coverage.
    Advantage:
    --Can you insure the items for a true fair value a collectible price, antique value, sentimental value, rarity value, etc. under this program? I would assume so, but check the fine print.
    Cost:
    --Cost is $6.70 per $1,000 of value which is good, but I have serious concerns about policy language though.
    Ick's notes:
    If you have a lot of value this is a very poor way to protect your firearms and related equipment especially when there is a very broad option available for only a few dollars more.

    Option 4, purchase separate scheduled insurance from your homeowner program or the NRA's broader program.
    Problems:
    --You likely need to get some kind of written appraisal from a local gun broker. This is generally NOT a big deal.
    Advantage:
    --The coverage is very broad and covers all sorts of things like flood, dropping the firearm down a cliff, realizing 3 hours later you left it by a tree after field dressing an animal and it is not there when you return, etc. This kind of broad language covering the firearms and accessores can be really important, so don't miss this advantage.
    --You CAN insure the items for a true fair value a collectible price, antique value, sentimental value, rarity value, etc. under this program.
    Cost:
    --Ick's homeowners in PA with local agent and Pennsylvania company is $11 per $1,000 of value, I have three other companies at about the same cost.
    --NRA's program is $17.40 per $1,000 of value Cha-CHING!
    --A buddy of mine has State Farm in Texas with local agent at $17 to $22 per $1,000 of value (This is a VERY high price, not sure why State Farm is so high).
    Ick's notes:
    Most of my customers choose NOT to list every firearm and accessory they own. Generally they list the most expensive and valuable firearms, optics, lasers, etc. this way.


    Ick's Other Notes
    Caution: Some company people are LIBERAL ANTI-GUN so don't be surprised if you have follow-up questions about "Why does the insured have a howitzer?" Personally I have yet to have a company make a big deal out of anything my customers buy, but I have heard of someone having trouble at some point in the past. Case in point:


    Keep in mind, I have found this ---^ to be the EXCEPTION, not the rule.

    You SHOULD keep a book on all your firearms including photos, invoices, serial numbers, NFA tax stamps, etc. in a SEPARATE location. It is also a good idea to keep any firearms history in here for things like "added new trigger" or history like "This weapon used in so-and-so conflict by my grandfather William Schmortz" or whatever.



    OK, so I am a little anal about documentation. Fortunately there are some huge long-term benefits of that kind of record keeping.


  5. #135
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    Sorry to hear about your animals, you can't replace those.

    A few years ago I came clean with my house insurance guy and he added a rider that specifically covered the value of my guns. I also have photos of said guns offsite.

    Don't dwell on the past though, salvage what you can, go forward and learn from the experience.

  6. #136
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    Just a side note for those with a safe, I've witnessed opening a safe after a pretty bad fire and noticed stuff on bottom was literally untouched while items on top were detroyed/melted.
    It really made me reevaluate my safe set up at home and how I have a lot of my handguns and jewerly/paperwork on the top shelves. Trying to figure out a better way of moving all the real flammable stuff to the bot andj ust have empty space or barrel ends stick up at top.
    Some food for thought..

    OP, my sincere condolences for your loss..

  7. #137
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    metal softness

    If your gona rebuid your guns or try to? the metal is not the same hardness level as it was before,it is likely softer now. aka rockwell testing for hardness.
    I was able to open my safe with a small, also burnt up pry bar i found on the ground,the locking bolts just bent like rubber,and all the knives i had,, the blades were way soft. Also things like wrenches would just strip very easly and were no longer usable.

    May wana have them rockwell tested to be safe.

  8. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsbsmarine View Post
    Just a side note for those with a safe, I've witnessed opening a safe after a pretty bad fire and noticed stuff on bottom was literally untouched while items on top were detroyed/melted.
    It really made me reevaluate my safe set up at home and how I have a lot of my handguns and jewerly/paperwork on the top shelves. Trying to figure out a better way of moving all the real flammable stuff to the bot andj ust have empty space or barrel ends stick up at top.
    Some food for thought..

    OP, my sincere condolences for your loss..
    That's really good to know! If anyone else knows of some other "tricks" or "tips" about safes please share!
    THE MORE YOU SWEAT IN TRAINING, THE LESS YOU BLEED IN BATTLE

  9. #139
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    Expensive lesson learned from fire.

    I wonder if there would be any benefit from adding a layer of fire bricks to the outside of a safe? While it probably wouldn't be practical to do the door, I would think it could be beneficial for the rest, and probably not too expensive. IIRC, they are pretty light as well.

    http://www.menards.com/main/heating-.../p-1392272.htm

    -john
    Last edited by bzdog; 02-19-13 at 11:57.

  10. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc. Holiday View Post
    That's really good to know! If anyone else knows of some other "tricks" or "tips" about safes please share!
    This makes total sense. I have seen severe damage to items in structure fires in areas that were not even touched by direct flame. The super heated gases can melt switchplates, tv's, any type of plastic items to a molten mess.

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