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Thread: Broken firing pin

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melon View Post
    If I was concerned about SHTF scenarios, I would not be using a weapon setup as such as a matter of planning.
    It would be OK if you had a bunch of spare parts, ammo and tools to repair it. But that is just like everybody else...if the S does HTF, do you think you are going to have a ready supply trail for the AR-15? Try getting spare parts right now with just the panic buying going on.

    I have a small handful of spare parts, I wish I had more, but I also wish I had money, looks, hair, and a fairy god mother.

    I provided the Mil-Spec as something to compare to. You are correct as there are different stresses and manufacturing processes going on for his weapon.


    For those who are interested, here is a look at mil specs versus civilian weapons:

    http://www.americanrifleman.org/m-ar...?id=2287&cid=1
    Last edited by Chorizo; 02-17-13 at 11:43.

  2. #42
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    nice, i always have a few extra parts on hand, firing pin is one of em

  3. #43
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    Military Specifications are usually performance based standards using the minimum expected performance as the bar to be achieved. You will find that no maximum performance standard is ever mentioned. What you will find are dimensional requirements and material requirements.

    During my 21 plus years in the Marine Corps, we had a tongue-in-the-cheek saying about mil spec (and often times training requirements) "If the minimum wasn't 'good enough', why do they call it the minimum anyway?"
    Last edited by Chorizo; 02-17-13 at 13:07.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melon View Post
    There is very little about the weapon he is using that is mil-spec. Its a Smith and Wesson chambered in 5.45x39. YMMV.

    If I was concerned about SHTF scenarios, I would not be using a weapon setup as such as a matter of planning.
    Agreed. This is a range gun. I replaced the broken pin with a seemingly identical pin and will run it to failure. My point is that there may be more of these bogus pins in the field and they may have found their way into service and SHTF weapons. If my theory is true that these pins are welded and can be detected by inspecting for the plating failure at the weld then they can be removed from the weapon before they break.

    How about you guys be on the lookout for firing pins that have a band of discoloration at the point of failure?
    Last edited by Suwannee Tim; 02-17-13 at 13:21.

  5. #45
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    No, it would not be OK for me. The AR was not designed to be chambered in that caliber, so I don't feel I would place any real trust into such a setup outside of punching holes in a dirt pile.

    And it sucks if you choose to make this particular time frame as the one in which you finally decided to buy spare parts. But in the last 30 days, I have been able to buy a couple of extra firing pins from BCM, a cam pin from the same, a lower parts kit (for spares) from PSA, an extra grip and RE.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chorizo View Post
    It would be OK if you had a bunch of spare parts, ammo and tools to repair it. But that is just like everybody else...if the S does HTF, do you think you are going to have a ready supply trail for the AR-15? Try getting spare parts right now with just the panic buying going on.

    I have a small handful of spare parts, I wish I had more, but I also wish I had money, looks, hair, and a fairy god mother.

    I provided the Mil-Spec as something to compare to. You are correct as there are different stresses and manufacturing processes going on for his weapon.


    For those who are interested, here is a look at mil specs versus civilian weapons:

    http://www.americanrifleman.org/m-ar...?id=2287&cid=1
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  6. #46
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    Based upon the photos, I don't buy that they are welded. If looks more like corrosion failure happened under the plating. But if you are convinced that is what happened and want to fixate on it vice using the firing pin way beyond expected service life, ok by me. There is an old doctor's saying, "When you hear hoof beats, think horse, not zebra."

    I have gotten a few more spare parts myself here lately, but how much is enough? In my 21 years and hundreds of thousands of rounds fired, I never had a firing pin fail. But then again, they were changed out with regularity. Do I have extras for myself now? HELL YES! Never can tell. When active duty, I had one bolt lug failure on the range and locked the weapon up....I have no idea what the service life on that weapon was as it was an off-the-rack weapon tossed to me for a short qualification when I was in a B billet and I had no issue weapon at the time. Other than that, never a hiccup.

    I am with you, you start doing modifications to the weapons, you can expect failures in areas you would never have previously suspected. With that said, I have a separate 450 bushmaster for elk hunting and a Remington R-15 scoped for varmint hunting. But they aren't my SHTF weapons.

    Melon....PM sent to you
    Last edited by Chorizo; 02-17-13 at 14:50.
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  7. #47
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    Broken firing pin

    I work in a metrology and metallurgy lab, as a quality control engineer...I can put this welded or not argument to bed in about 15 minutes if you wish. Let me know. You could ship it to me, and I could examine it after a metallographic mount and polish... Then etch it for weld flow in the appropriate acid for material type (probably picric). Then throw it under our stereoscope at 100-1000x to check for weld flow or the absence thereof.

    I'm with everyone else, pretty well sure it ain't welded.

  8. #48
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    Just looked at my firing pin from my SW 5.45 R upper. There is a small amount of discoloration around the "root" of the FP. It's not a weld.

    Pretty sure that's from heat and compression. My upper has about 11k rounds through it and I've had to replace bolt parts but never the pin.

    Just to double check I examined a FP from one of my older carbines. The exact same discoloration in the exact same location.

    Shrugs... think an email to S&W is in order.
    Quote Originally Posted by markm View Post
    But you should have enough mags that you don't need to see a grief councelor if you destroy or damage one.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by !Nvasi0n View Post
    I work in a metrology and metallurgy lab, as a quality control engineer...I can put this welded or not argument to bed in about 15 minutes if you wish. Let me know. You could ship it to me, and I could examine it after a metallographic mount and polish... Then etch it for weld flow in the appropriate acid for material type (probably picric). Then throw it under our stereoscope at 100-1000x to check for weld flow or the absence thereof.

    I'm with everyone else, pretty well sure it ain't welded.
    Now there is a great offer to get an answer based upon fact!
    USMC, 21 years and 21 days. But who was counting?

  10. #50
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    I know that firing pins are not two pieces welded together.

    Sorry, make that "know".

    I "knew" charging handles were not two pieces welded together-- then I saw one. Fortunately it remains the only one I've ever seen, it was so poorly done that is was very obvious, and I think it was a remnant of the bad old days-- somewhere in the '80's when the dearth of good parts sources was an opportunity for bad ones to jump in.

    Tim, your welding knowledge and having the thing there in your hand trumps what I think right now, but I'll just say that from what I can see in the pics it looks the way I would expect a broken, one-piece firing pin to look-- in terms of the location and the appearance of the broken area. But I have never seen a broken one before. I have seen them where the chrome plating changes hue and appearance in the area where the pin shaft meets the flange-- a natural tendency of chrome to not want to go into corners. Could this be giving the appearance of a heat-affected zone?

    Now if this was on an AR that had the cutaway carrier, I'd say "I don't know why they all don't do that", since in that setup, the firing pin head takes quite a beating, being as how it is the FP head, and not the carrier rotating the hammer back in the firing cycle-- and then it rides over that notched hammer tip bupitty-bump every time. But from what I can see of your FP flange (not all beat to hell), and given that as far as I have seen, S&W does not use that setup, well, I guess yours is not set up that way, right?

    I'd love to see the FP tested-- and if it IS two pieces, then we'll know that's out there in the stream. S&W would probably be interested to know too-- and surprised I'll bet.

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