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Thread: 1 lower, 2 uppers

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by rstang99 View Post
    An inch is pretty optimistic for an AR15 @ 100 yards, even with a quality gun. 1.5 to 2.5 MOA is little more realistic.
    Damn. Someone shoulda told my AR that.

  2. #32
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    I sure don't read that. Most people I have read say about 2.5 is typical. Some guns achieve 1.5. With good ammunition in a 5 round group I see about 1.5 MOA with my DD barrel upper. It will stack two or three rounds then one is off a bit and the next one a little more. I suppose if you only count three rounds then sub-MOA is achievable but I think 5 rounds is considered a fairly standard test for this type of rifle vs a bolt for hunting would be 3 rounds.

  3. #33
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    Again, shoot before modifying.

    Your posts show a lack of experience. Nothing wrong with that, all of us had to start someplace. You could buy the most accurate upper in the world, yet you will see no improvement in your groups because of your lack of experience. Shoot what you have! Stop worrying about bull barrels, free float tubes and barrel lengths. Shoot what you have. Shoot it until you get good enough that what you have is holding back your progression. Shoot what you have until the experience you gain shows you what improvements, if any, your rifle needs.

    Barrel length and profile does not determine accuracy. Length affects velocity. Profile affects consistency. Experience will teach you this. At this point, you do not have any clue if you upper isn't aleady accurate enough for your needs.

    The size of your dot does not determine the size of the groups you shoot. Service Rifle Match shooters consistently get groups smaller than the area their front sight covers. I have a 4 minute dot on my carbine. It is NOT too big. With experience and coaching, you'll find the dot isn't a handicap at all.

    That's not to say a scope does afford the shooter greater precision.

    What you need to do, is find a mount that will let you mount a scope to your upper and see how that works. Wring what you can out of that before thinking about free float tubes or monster barrels that need a cannon carriage to wheel it to the firing line.

    Let me once more emphasize-
    Ammo Before Accessories. Shoot Before Modifying

    Now go buy ammo and shoot your rifle and forget all this nonsense about getting another upper until experience shows you what will work

    One more thing- A good barrel won't shoot to it's potential unless you spend the money to get good ammo
    Last edited by MistWolf; 02-18-13 at 22:50.
    INSIDE PLAN OF BOX
    1. ROAD-RUNNER LIFTS GLASS OF WATER- PULLING UP MATCH
    2. MATCH SCRATCHES ON MATCH-BOX
    3. MATCH LIGHTS FUSE TO TNT
    4. BOOM!
    5. HA-HA!!

    -WILE E. COYOTE, AUTHOR OF "EVERYTHING I NEEDED TO KNOW IN LIFE, I LEARNED FROM GOLDBERG & MURPHY"

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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donut View Post
    Damn. Someone shoulda told my AR that.
    I would like to see your 100 yard targets with five round groups. Didn't see much better than that in the military either.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by rstang99 View Post
    I would like to see your 100 yard targets with five round groups. Didn't see much better than that in the military either.

    PRVI 75-grain


    PRVI 75-grain


    52-grain SMK over 25 grains of IMR-4895 (Sorry, only 4 rounds there. I shanked the hell out of the 3rd shot)

  6. #36
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    I see four round groups, where is five? With good ammo on a good day I can do that with my DD barrel too but it won't make five rounds that way. More often than not the fifth round looks like your bottom target.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by rstang99 View Post
    I see four round groups, where is five? With good ammo on a good day I can do that with my DD barrel too but it won't make five rounds that way. More often than not the fifth round looks like your bottom target.
    They are all 5 round targets. The bottom one is the only one with four counted. *I* shanked that - it's not representative of the gun or the load. Just a shooter who had a brain fart. It's still a 1.200 MOA group with my error factored in.

  8. #38
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    That's a good gun and not typical. I don't claim to be an expert on the latest and greatest boutique M4s that are popular on this website but I did spend a lot of years with an M16 and I am a multi-weapon USAF marksman. I have done a lot of research on the M4 variant and I am pretty confident 1.5 to 2.5 MOA is typical for most of the M4 clone guns produced today. On a good day with good ammunition I have shot sub MOA with my M4 but 1.5 MOA is a lot more typical. I consider it a 1.5 MOA gun. It's sure not a Remington 700.
    Last edited by rstang99; 02-18-13 at 23:43.

  9. #39
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    What I usually like to see is something like 4, 5 shot groups all on the same piece of paper, without any groups thrown out. Just a piece of paper with 4 or 5 bulls and 4 or 5 groups of 5+ rounds.

    But everybody has their own stanrdard for calling something an X.X MOA gun. Some people want to see, say, 5 consecutive 10 shot groups without anything being thrown out. Some people are happy with a single 3 shot group. And a lot of people fall in between.
    Last edited by Warp; 02-18-13 at 23:39.

  10. #40
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    1.5 to 2.5 MOA for a standard M4 type carbine is about right, but MOA or sub-MOA accuracy with a gun specifically built for accuracy is not unheard of nor uncommon. Things like unlined stainless match barrels and .223 Wylde chambers exist for a reason.

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