gripping a carbine

[dash1]

And you wouldn't hold a fishing pole out at the front end because your arms would fatigue and shake in short order.

The broom analogy is equally retarded.

The broom analogy doesn't suggest holding the broom by one end and by the bristles as your fishing pole analogy does. In my experience holding a rifle/carbine as far forward as is comfortable does not induce extra strain or fatigue. Key word being comfortable. I didn't say grip it all the way at the end.

[Moltke]

Look in this thread.

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=96389

[Arctic1]

I'll reiterate what I stated in this thread:

http://m4carbine.net/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1549102

I disagree with the "whatever works" train of thought.

If it is for plinking on the range, sure, knock yourself out. If it is for duty use, one should strive to employ techniques that are proven to be beneficial/superior. If you were to adjust your stance/grip, it should be due to the following factors:

-Mandated gear requiring a different grip; lasers, grenade launchers, bipods, flashlights, short rails etc
-Physical limitations; injuries, build etc limiting a shooter
-Awkward shooting positions precluding the use of the ideal technique

I have seen way to many people advocate a tight, mag-well'esque grip on the weapon, because it is comfortable to carry it that way, and they manage to get hits on the range when static against full silhouette targets.

When we start firing more rapidly, do target transitions, movement etc poor technique and poor recoil control becomes more apparent in the ones who follow the "whatever works" methodology.

And you can call a technique "vogue", but the physics involved do not lie. A tight grip with a short LOP is not more stable than grabbing the gun far forward with an extended LOP. Not saying it doesn't have utility in some situations, but it is not an optimal shooting platformwhen it comes to recoil control.

[Littlelebowski]

And you wouldn't hold a fishing pole out at the front end because your arms would fatigue and shake in short order.

The broom analogy is equally retarded.

I doubt that you'll take this personally but I'll still say that I hope you don't.

The heaviest and most durable (read thick) part of a fishing pole (sans fish) is the grip near the reel. Would you grip a thinner part when hauling in a fish or stick with the most durable part? In other words, absolute analogy fail as it relates to shooting rifles. Take a class for a couple of days and see what works best for you, Mark. Not just shooting with your buddy but actually on the clock, being critiqued.

Or in other words, if I can shoot for the entirety of a 2 day Failure2Stop class using said grip with my permanently damaged, gunshot elbow.......grow stronger

http://rationalgun.blogspot.com/2012...practical.html

[NeoNeanderthal]

As others have stated, go get some GOOD training. Also all of the well respected instructors do NOT use a magwell grip, so thats a clue. Some of the common themes among instructors is extended (atleast somewhat) support arm, strong elbow down and c-clamping the rail or atleast not wrapping the thumb around a vert grip with your support hand.

Dont know any guys "going full retard" or magwell gripping now-a-days. Other old school techniques that you dont see many reputable instructors use is strong elbow up, weaver with pistol, and empty mag retention. People say that it's because it's not in vogue but there is a lot of well thought out rational out there for not using these techniques.

The only negative I have ever heard to the newer extended grips is comfort..... To me that is not really a disadvantage especially since you can dial it back slightly to facilitate being comfortable during longer strings of shooting. There are many cons to a magwell grip.

Travis Haley's video on panteao does a great job explaining the rationale behind this newer stance. Regardless of if you decide to use it or not it'd be good to understand the pros of it. Vickers does not use quite such a squared of stance, or grip quite as far out but he shoots pretty extended.

[NeoNeanderthal]

I doubt that you'll take this personally but I'll still say that I hope you don't.

The heaviest and most durable (read thick) part of a fishing pole (sans fish) is the grip near the reel. Would you grip a thinner part when hauling in a fish or stick with the most durable part? In other words, absolute analogy fail as it relates to shooting rifles. Take a class for a couple of days and see what works best for you, Mark. Not just shooting with your buddy but actually on the clock, being critiqued.

Or in other words, if I can shoot for the entirety of a 2 day Failure2Stop class using said grip with my permanently damaged, gunshot elbow.......grow stronger

http://rationalgun.blogspot.com/2012...practical.html

Thats a narley elbow man. I'd love to hear the story behind it. It is on here somewhere or on your blog?

[Prairie Patriot]

When standing, I personally like the thumb over bore with a hand stop of some sort. My reasons are that I can guide the muzzle quicker with less over travel and get the butt tucked in more firmly into my shoulder. However, I am certainly not opposed to mag well grip in certain situations where it may be necessary due to fatigue or firing position.

Start building up your "tool set" so that you will have the right ones for the right situations and jobs.

[Zane1844]

These are the approved stances:

LOL, I cannot stop laughing at this.

I prefer the thumb over bore grip, it feels the most comfortable to me. But I try different things.

[Easy Rhino]

Pics are hilarious...equally as funny is the guy is in sandals. it just dawned on me thats why all these innocent people are getting shot instead of the intended targets, like gang members. (new Orleans and Chicago to name the recent ones) Its an off the wall tactic for gun control, but what if they offered a shooting course to gang members in Chicago...maybe they would actually hit their intended targets, not have to empty the clip...innocent girls spared, criminals dead, and the problem would slowly solve itself?

[Airhasz]

Pics are hilarious...equally as funny is the guy is in sandals. it just dawned on me thats why all these innocent people are getting shot instead of the intended targets, like gang members. (new Orleans and Chicago to name the recent ones) Its an off the wall tactic for gun control, but what if they offered a shooting course to gang members in Chicago...maybe they would actually hit their intended targets, not have to empty the clip...innocent girls spared, criminals dead, and the problem would slowly solve itself?

Good in theory, but will never fly...