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Thread: Movin away from CL?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinlessorrow View Post
    Yes, here is what R0N listed the pricing as for ammo for the Marines(probably less for the Army given their quantity vs the Marines), Also remember it is being made on the slower more costly machines which I cannot remember their name.

    If the Army gets it running on the quicker cheaper machines the cost will go down.

    Would you rather our soldiers be strapped with M855 that has a tendency to do nothing but perform like an icepick? Supposedly it does but there are better barrel treatments like NiCor that would greatly increase barrel life vs CL.

    How much to get those machines up and running? We've already wasted billions on this wonder round. Our budget is getting nothing but smaller. We do not and will not have the money to spend on this. They're talking about units not having enough money to train up for deployments for christ sake. Units not having enough money for the basics. We already don't have enough money to get enough rounds to run effective ranges.

    And to answer you, I would rather my soldiers get enough rounds to train and use than going all in on a substantially more expensive round and getting less. M855? Is it the best out there? No, of course not. I would rather go with 318 or 262. But we've killed quite a few people with M855 and continue to do so. I'm about to head out the door again, my money is where my mouth is.

    The fiscal reality of our military is that this round is too expensive to implement right now.

    ETA: And I know this thread is getting side tracked.....but thats what happens. These topics all interweave and affect each other. You can't talk about one and not the other This round is supposed to wear on barrels faster. If they're trying to get away from CL, how will this round affect that?
    Last edited by scoutfsu99; 02-28-13 at 00:05.

  2. #32
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    The chemicals used in the chrome lining process are very toxic. The disposal of said chemicals is highly regulated. Hydrochloric acid, sulfuric acid, and hexavalent chromium are just a few of the chemicals used that i can recall. I know there are a couple more.

    The reason why they want to get rid of lead in ammo is, because so much of it ends up in the ground. While the lead lies in the dirt it can end up in the water table. The chroming process is toxic, and certain forms of chromium are toxic as well. I do not know which form of chromium ends up as the lining in barrels, or how much of it ends up in the ground.

    Another reason for going with a green bullet is clean up cost. I have read that after fighting a war we pay large amounts to clean up the lead that is left behind from the bullets. I have read that in a few places, but never been able to find anything that confirms it.

    I doubt that the chrome lining process will be replaced. There are other processes that are being used now, but i doubt they are non toxic. Im not familiar with the processes, and only know a little bit about chroming.

    Will the mil try to replace chrome lining? Who knows. If they do, and claim it is for environmental reasons they are full of it. Im sure there is more lead in the 210 rounds one soldier carries then all the chromium in all the barrels said soldier will use in his career.

  3. #33
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    Actually, the evidence that weapon's ranges are leaking lead into the environment in general and the water table in particular has been rather underwhelming
    INSIDE PLAN OF BOX
    1. ROAD-RUNNER LIFTS GLASS OF WATER- PULLING UP MATCH
    2. MATCH SCRATCHES ON MATCH-BOX
    3. MATCH LIGHTS FUSE TO TNT
    4. BOOM!
    5. HA-HA!!

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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinlessorrow View Post
    Also remember it is being made on the slower more costly machines which I cannot remember their name.
    SCAMP machines IIRC

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by MistWolf View Post
    Actually, the evidence that weapon's ranges are leaking lead into the environment in general and the water table in particular has been rather underwhelming
    Maybe, but still hasn't stopped the big Army (or USAF for that matter) from trying for years to "go green." Luckily we haven't talked about changing up from 855 for carry or deployment rounds for the moment. But most of our qualification is done using the Mk 311 frang and supposedly for environmental reasons.

    Far be it for me to turn this into politics, but it seems the military starts looking at the "green" side of things whenever the DNC holds the White House. I know the 855A1 was in testing for a while, but didn't seem to get a front burner issue until after 09. I might be wrong and the tin foil side of me is coming out, but it looks like the .mil powers that be tend to try to please whomever is in power at the moment.

    And I agree with the other poster that said we should be focusing more on killing bad people and breaking their toys rather than hugging bunnies. As well as the other folks that have said we simply cannot afford the expenses of fielding this round on a large scale right now.

  6. #36
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    Would they be switching to Melonite? I have heard (from a manufacturer who does Melonite) that Melonite is as durable as CL, but it has a lower coefficient of friction so the barrel stays cooler during sustained shooting.

    Take that with a grain of salt since the guy was trying to sell me a Melonite-coated gun at the time.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by MistWolf View Post
    Actually, the evidence that weapon's ranges are leaking lead into the environment in general and the water table in particular has been rather underwhelming
    I know they can not really show any true evidence of this, but it is why they made the change. I did not want to get into how much truth to it there is in my post.

  8. #38
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    Re: Movin away from CL?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grand58742 View Post
    Maybe, but still hasn't stopped the big Army (or USAF for that matter) from trying for years to "go green." Luckily we haven't talked about changing up from 855 for carry or deployment rounds for the moment. But most of our qualification is done using the Mk 311 frang and supposedly for environmental reasons.

    Far be it for me to turn this into politics, but it seems the military starts looking at the "green" side of things whenever the DNC holds the White House. I know the 855A1 was in testing for a while, but didn't seem to get a front burner issue until after 09. I might be wrong and the tin foil side of me is coming out, but it looks like the .mil powers that be tend to try to please whomever is in power at the moment.

    And I agree with the other poster that said we should be focusing more on killing bad people and breaking their toys rather than hugging bunnies. As well as the other folks that have said we simply cannot afford the expenses of fielding this round on a large scale right now.
    I was issued about 100 855a1 and 100 855 my last combat load, with a few tracers here and there, by an Army-run joint RC-Cap FOB around this time last year.

    I was so surprised I took a picture:
    Last edited by Koshinn; 03-01-13 at 16:05.
    "I never learned from a man who agreed with me." Robert A. Heinlein

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