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Thread: M27 on Tac-TV last night!

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fjallhrafn View Post
    Fixed! (If memory serves.)





    Makes sense.

    Does the M16A4 cost include RCO, RAS, &c.?

    I wonder what the Norwegians paid for their rifles....
    From what I can find online it was USD$16.7 million for 8,200 rifles. So about $2,000 USD each.
    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    Colt builds War Horses, not show ponies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    This is 2012. The world is going to end this December and people are still trying to debate the merits of piece of shit, cost cutting crap AR's. Really?

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinlessorrow View Post
    From what I can find online it was USD$16.7 million for 8,200 rifles. So about $2,000 USD each.
    The last cost I could find was for FY11 and it was $735.00 for the M16A4MWS, $1,010.36 for the RCO, $1,275.00 for the PEQ-16A, $38.61 for the bayonet, $115.00 for the Grip Pod, $64.00 for the cleaning kit and $66.57 for 7 magazines.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by R0N View Post
    The last cost I could find was for FY11 and it was $735.00 for the M16A4MWS, $1,010.36 for the RCO, $1,275.00 for the PEQ-16A, $38.61 for the bayonet, $115.00 for the Grip Pod, $64.00 for the cleaning kit and $66.57 for 7 magazines.
    Thanks R0N, those numbers I posted were for the Norwegian HK416N's I should have specified that. Thats all I could find.

    Does that $700 include the RAS(or is it RIS?)? Thats not a bad price if so. What all comes with the M27 if you don't mind me asking?
    Last edited by sinlessorrow; 03-09-13 at 07:54.
    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    Colt builds War Horses, not show ponies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    This is 2012. The world is going to end this December and people are still trying to debate the merits of piece of shit, cost cutting crap AR's. Really?

  4. #84
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    Thanks R0N, those numbers I posted were for the Norwegian HK416N's I should have specified that.
    That includes:

    Sling
    Vertical grip
    BUIS
    Cleaning kit
    7 Magazines

    That said, the price went down when we purchased an additional 17000 weapons, for a total of 25000. We are also getting 17000 new rifles this year.
    It's not about surviving, it's about winning!

  5. #85
    Dano5326 Guest
    I don't think the M27 was a sound choice.

    I have no reason to suspect any greater bolt longevity out of HK than an conventional AR/Stoner arrangement. The recoil impulse of a 416 is much more than a similarly configured AR. Not ideal for burst on tgt.

    A heavier, more expensive carbine, with expensive replacement parts, coming from a foreign company.. brilliant.

    The Corps either wanted to sneak in a fleetwide adoption of the 416, or they have no idea wtf they really need. In an institution with a 86% turnover rate every 4yrs, and a massive dissonance between savvvy end users and procurement types... I would suspect the later.

    An improved M4 with a 16" heavy barrel, longer gas system, heatsink fore-end, and a stabilizing muzzle device would have been smarter.
    -commonality of parts from barrel nut back, ala less proprietary crap
    -armorer training essentially unchanged
    -not wedded to fluctuations of foreign quality
    -much better recoil characteristics
    -cheaper, definitely so over lifecycle

    -US Marines.. with a US made product, crazy

    PIP could of had improved bolts/carriers with 20K lifespan ala KAC or LMT's wares, backwards compatible with standard m16 BCG's for quick fix's in deployment scenarios. Barrel burnt, change barrel & bolt.

    Or go completely logical and require a rd count device in the pistol grip. Every institution with systemic weapons issues has massive issues tracking why/when. Since when is directly related to rd ct and firing schedule, which is never correctly tracked.. get the data and fix it.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dano5326 View Post
    I don't think the M27 was a sound choice.

    I have no reason to suspect any greater bolt longevity out of HK than an conventional AR/Stoner arrangement. The recoil impulse of a 416 is much more than a similarly configured AR. Not ideal for burst on tgt.

    A heavier, more expensive carbine, with expensive replacement parts, coming from a foreign company.. brilliant.

    The Corps either wanted to sneak in a fleetwide adoption of the 416, or they have no idea wtf they really need. In an institution with a 86% turnover rate every 4yrs, and a massive dissonance between savvvy end users and procurement types... I would suspect the later.

    A PIP M4 with a 16" heavy barrel, longer gas system, heatsink fore-end, and a stabilizing muzzle device would have been smarter.
    -commonality of parts from barrel nut back
    -armorer training essentially unchanged
    -not wedded to fluctuations of foreign quality
    -much better recoil characteristics
    -cheaper, definitely so over lifecycle

    -US Marines.. with a US made product, crazy

    PIP could of had improved bolts/carriers with 20K lifespan ala KAC or LMT's wares, backwards compatible with standard m16 BCG's for quick fix's in deployment scenarios. Barrel burnt, change barrel & bolt.

    Or go completely logical and require a rd count device in the pistol grip. Every institution with systemic weapons issues has massive issues tracking why/when. Since when is directly related to rd ct and firing schedule, which is never correctly tracked.. get the data and fix it.
    Our PIP is going to be a free-floating rail system and adjustable butt-stock for the A4.

    I cannot speak to bolt life but I know barrel life is around 4x longer for the M-27 than it is for either the M4, A4 or M4A1 barrel.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by R0N View Post
    Our PIP is going to be a free-floating rail system and adjustable butt-stock for the A4.

    I cannot speak to bolt life but I know barrel life is around 4x longer for the M-27 than it is for either the M4, A4 or M4A1 barrel.
    What kind of barrel life are ya'll seeing?
    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    Colt builds War Horses, not show ponies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    This is 2012. The world is going to end this December and people are still trying to debate the merits of piece of shit, cost cutting crap AR's. Really?

  8. #88
    Dano5326 Guest
    HK 1st said 30K rds for the 416 to some users... not so much in real life. They now say 10K. There is no physics altering cloud covering the factory in Germeny. Overselling does not engender confidence in a companies wares.

    Several US manufacturers can produced a hammer forged, chromed lined of equal or superior quality.

  9. #89
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    Re: M27 on Tac-TV last night!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dano5326 View Post
    HK 1st said 30K rds for the 416 to some users... not so much in real life. They now say 10K. There is no physics altering cloud covering the factory in Germeny. Overselling does not engender confidence in a companies wares.

    Several US manufacturers can produced a hammer forged, chromed lined of equal or superior quality.
    True, but they didn't make a difference in the testing. I am anything but a 416 hugger, but it answered the mail better than any of the other submissions as far as the requirements document went. Doesn't mean that there is nothing better, or that technology hasn't progressed since 2008, but it's kind of a moot point.

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  10. #90
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    I surprised ya'll didnt choose a HF barrel from FNH since they currently make the A4 and have the machines to produce the barrels.
    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    Colt builds War Horses, not show ponies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    This is 2012. The world is going to end this December and people are still trying to debate the merits of piece of shit, cost cutting crap AR's. Really?

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