Not even a question.. Get the BAD-CASS (I like the short throws personally).. You won't regret it.
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Not even a question.. Get the BAD-CASS (I like the short throws personally).. You won't regret it.
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Owner/Instructor at Semper Paratus Arms
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Master Armorer/R&D at SIONICS Weapon Systems- http://sionicsweaponsystems.com
Spot on, while the bottom flanges of Troy ambi-selector levers are flush with the receiver, the dovetail male protrusion on the lever which indexes on the center body isn't - which creates the interference, and dilemma when you actually try to install them.
Mr. Murphy visited my doorstep, if it can happen, it will happen. I've had blue Loctite work loose on my ambi-selector, not a BAD, but LMT - so retention method is the same. The way I work the selector makes it more susceptible to working loose. Though I'm right handed, I don't use my thumb to throw the selector back to safe, but use my trigger finger instead. And I work the safety lever constantly, when I am on target or off target. However, even in the eventually it did come off, it's not a show stopper, as the gun would still function. But after couple thousand rounds, it'd work loose, I just hated the slop I felt when coming back to safe, so I stepped up to 272/red thread locker and called it good. So, I wouldn't worry too much about it.
It's up to you, but, just sharing my experience with ambi-selectors, I've used a Stag, KAC, LMT, DPMS, BAD ASS, and Troy. Quality wise, it's hard for me to tell the difference between the latter 4 ambi-selectors, other than LMT has their roll mark on the selector, and the phosphate finish is more grey than black. Functionality wise, the BAD ASS has not only more options, but more positive engagement than the others, while with the other brands it can be a hit or miss, since they don't come with a new selector detent and/or spring, just the selector it self, which warrants why they're slightly more expensive.
Ming, the inclusion of a high quality detent (stainless steel, KNS), extra screws, detent spring, and the T10 wrench all have their cost, but the cost of these items were not passed down to customers.
The reason ours costs more has to do with its billet construction, use of expensive material and components.
The closest comparable selectors are Troy's and JP's, as they are also billet. Troy's components are all steel, while JP's levers are aluminum, with steel centers. Cast selectors are billet selectors, while they serve the same purpose, they are quite different in price and quality. We realized this early on, so we decided to compete in quality and innovation rather than price point. Competing in price point is a slippery slope, we refuse to go down that path, but you will always find us on the forefront of quality and innovation, there are some projects in the works that will reinforce this further
In terms of quality, I can't comment on others but I can on our own. We're on PIP3 (product improvement program) now, almost all of the changes made since 2010 have to do with compatibility with non-factory components, there had been no change or compromise in material and construction to cut cost. The smooth rotation, positive detent engagement, the longevity of the detent (a wear item), durability, and screws not backing out are not accidents, these characteristics are achieved design goals.
In this area alone we have spent months, with dozens of prototypes, to perfect.
Many of these traits are not easy to tell. In the picture below, there is one visible change you can see. The center flat section is wider on ours, this was incorporated into PIP1 back in 2010 after my conversation with Bill Geissele, we asked for and received his advise re: trigger compatibility. The wider flat section has to do with better compatibility with out of spec receivers which may have problems with the DMR, Service Rifle, etc. triggers that have wide trigger tangs.
Battle Arms Dev. has a life time, unconditional warranty on all BAD manufactured products. That, and the free lever exchange program, along with very high quality components and superb workmanship, don't come cheap, but our customers get what they pay for and a great deal more![]()
Roger Wang
Forward Controls Design
Simplicity is the sign of truth
The quality of the BAD selectors is beyond obvious.
Prior to buying my first BAD selector, I really didn't put much thought into selectors. I just used what ever they came with (LMT, DD, etc). I didn't think it was a feature that would be that different from anything else.
I couldn't have been more incorrect. After receiving my first BAD selector I was blown away by the difference. The positive feedback, the steady, solid levers, the the well thought out designs, it's all just amazing for such a small part to make such a huge difference.
And then... The customer service... It's just simply un-matched.. No one in the industry can even touch the level of service that Battle Arms Development has, truly amazing.
With any new build, the BAD-CASS is the first thing I get after the lower itself. No reason to mess with anything else IMO.
Kudo's to B.A.D. for the amazing products and service they provide.
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I am using some of this quote from the great LAV, but I do not think he would mind...." If your not using a B.A.D A.S.S. or C.A.S.S you need to take a ****ing piss test."
By no means knocking the BAD, but for that matter really can't find any fault w. the Noveske/MP ST selector either.
Other than being polymer which is neither good nor bad and a whole different discussion, it is a fine product, is just as reliable and works just as well as the BAD.
One is a bit more limited on "incarnations", but the price is just so nice - if one is looking for that particular set-up.
And at this point I'm just really big on supporting Noveske.
Per Ardua ad Astra.
STS - gone but not forgotten.
We're glad Noveske is on board with the short throw concept. We obviously didn't invent the short throw selector, we were just the first company to take it to market successfully.
Due to the selector pointer not lining up with the 12 o'clock FIRE or pictogram engravings on a standard receiver, ours has a "lawyer pin" to bar its use on a standard receiver, and requires a compatible receiver that has the correctly located engraving, and a notch cut on the selector hole which allows the pin to pass through. We don't like it, as it limits compatibility and adds cost, but it's either the lawyer pin, or there wouldn't be a short throw selector as designed.
Noveske's ST selector does not require a ST compatible receiver, as at 60 degrees it points close enough to the FIRE engraving![]()
Roger Wang
Forward Controls Design
Simplicity is the sign of truth
BAD offers 1. more lever options and 2. short throw options for those who can want them. $5, 10, 15 price difference with the others I am not going to worry about on a gun that will see $10K worth of ammo through it.
For reference, swapping levers on my cass. It's a bitch to break the set screw loose. Get it out and the loctite and dovetail means the lever will not budge. I had to use a delrin punch and hammer to tap it off the selector...
Duffy, lol he said that about Aimpoint Optics, but I feel that it fits in good with your ambi selectors as well. I cannot wait until my lower comes in and I can put the ST on it.
As you said it is nice to see others doing the ST but personally I just favor the BAD ones. I am friends with another individual on here that actually has another brand ambi selector and we both agree that the BAD gives the most positive feedback when selecting, not to mention how great it is to be able to custom the selector that works best for you.
Truthfully I have never used a Troy ambi selector or shot a Rifle with one on, but unless it is someone else's rifle I don't think I ever will.
Last edited by Blak1508; 03-12-13 at 15:22.
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