Colt 1873 Model P versus other contemporary designs

[Deputy Dan]

You might have an "extreme" advantage as cited by the legendary Mas Ayoob ... until the frame stretches.

Then you are S.O.L.

Top break revolvers are extinct for a reason... it is an inherently weaker design than solid frame revolvers. All top breaks stretch their frames, there is nothing that can be done about it. Most of the original top breaks were fired to the point where they were a total constructive loss and discarded.

[Coal Dragger]

I haven't fired black powder handguns before and the muzzleloaders that I have fired weren't mine so I didn't have to clean them.

I hadn't really thought about the residue but that really does make sense. It wouldn't be any faster to eject if you had to manually pick 1/2 the cartridge cases out with your finger tips.

I definitely could see how it would be an advantage for the Colt in those conditions. Why did the Russians/British pick break action types?

Beats me why the Russians and the British went with top break revolvers. Probably the theoretical improvement in ease of extraction/ejection of spent shells and reloading, versus the loss of strength and less powerful rounds.

I would venture a guess that unlike the US Army neither the Russians, nor the British had spent any significant amount of time using handguns to fight with in adverse conditions at that time. The British in particular had trouble with their first top break revolver the Enfield MK I/II having extraction issues due to an overly complicated mechanism and fouling. The Webley was much more reliable, but it should be noted that the Webley had a very short span of using black powder before the .455 Webley was switched over to cordite which was cleaner burning.

Let's not forget the fact that the US Army back then, and now, was an institution that didn't like change very much. Look how long they stuck with the Trapdoor Springfield which was not only outdated when designed, but weak and generally pointless. So they liked the simplicity and ruggedness of the Colt 1873, probably mostly the simplicity and similarity to previous Colt revolvers in grip shape and operation with cartridge conversions.

Then there is the issue of the .45 Colt round, and the requirements of the US Army versus other militaries of the time. For some reason back in the day the US Army wanted sidearms that could actually take the fight out of someone, and the .45 Colt was about the most powerful revolver you could find at the time. I have read somewhere, but cannot find reference to requirements that the round needed to be capable of stopping cavalry horses.

[Deputy Dan]

One last thought... Speed loaders for the S&W top breaks didn't exist contemporaneously for a reason we have forgotten. Metallic cartridges were "speed loading" compared to percussion revolvers... which far outnumbered metallic cartridge revolvers in the early 1870's.

[John Hearne]

the .45 Colt was about the most powerful revolver you could find at the time. I have read somewhere, but cannot find reference to requirements that the round needed to be capable of stopping cavalry horses.

I believe it was Michael Bane who said the design spec was the ability to kill a horse at 200 yards.

[Crow Hunter]

I have read somewhere, but cannot find reference to requirements that the round needed to be capable of stopping cavalry horses.

I remember reading that in reference to the 1911 and the.45 ACP as well and that it was originally developed as a calvary arm. I don't remember where I read that either.

I wish I knew someone who owned a top break that I could try out. It might be obvious if you shoot it in person.

John Hearne, I didn't realize you were from Ponotoc! My wife is from Boonevegas, I go down there all the time. You don't happen to have a test firing range down there do you?

[Deputy Dan]

Look up the Thompson-LaGarde Tests of 1904... it will shed some light into the thought process of the military on wound ballistics more than a century ago, and wouldn't be too far off the mark for the 1870's.

[Z71]

The handgun market back in the day wasn't a lot different than today. The choice of sidearms available being quite numerous.

The Colt SSA seems like it's the hands-down choice..however a huge part of that misconception stems from the SSA remaining in production to this day from a dozen companys!!

There were many older tech percussian revolvers left-over from the Civil War..some converted to cartridge and some not..the Remingtons remained in production until the mid 1870's and Colt using leftover percussian revover parts to manufacture new cartridge guns for years...

Colt also competed with itself with various double-action revolvers. Smith&Wesson and Remington...Hopkins&Allen..and a few other quality domestic handgun makers all vied for the market with large-bore and smallbore handguns.

Then you had the foreign revolvers..both high quality and cheap/cheesy guns. Many of these imported and sold.

It boils down to the fact that many..many brands/makes/calibers of handguns 'won the west'...however the Colt SSA(like the 1911) survived the test of time and earned a loyal following...literaly becoming 'legendary'...prolly being the most prolific gun used in Hollywood westerns ever having more to do with the Colt SSA popularity than anything else.

Colt being the most succesful of the early revolver makers and owning the main patents gave them a headstart...plus they turned out a high quality product in a time when a lot of junk was being made.

From a technology veiwpoint..the Colt SSA was really never cutting-edge technology...but it was a good revolver for the times.

[falnovice]

Regarding Colt vs Smith and Wesson, it was my understanding that Smith lost out on local sales because their production was tied up with the Russian contract for so long. They didn't push the design, and with relatively few out there it wasn't as though people knew they existed.
Meanwhile Colt came along with a new design, pushed some heavy marketing that actually put the gun into peoples hands and had great luck with it. It certainly didn't hurt that Colt was a household name already.