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Thread: Looking for a Dual-purpose AR (defense/varmint)

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ^Rb View Post
    The 6920 is perfectly capable of serving both duties. Make no mistake about it.
    This^^^^

    There really isn't much a good 16", 1:7 twist AR (BCM, Colt, Daniel Defense, Larue, LMT) can't accomplish in the home defense and varmint categories within 300 yards. And that's without a magnified optic.

    Change your ammo from one to another or pick my favorite, the ASYM 70 grain, all copper, Barnes TSX, and use it for anything walking.

    Add an Aimpoint T-1 and a sling and it's "look out varmints and would-be home invaders!"
    "Why "zombies"? Because calling it 'training to stop a rioting, starving, panicking, desperate mob after a complete governmental financial collapse apocalypse' is just too wordy." or in light of current events: "training to stop a rioting, looting, molotov cocktail throwing, skinny jeans wearing, uneducated bunch of lemmings duped by, or working directly for, a marxist organization attempting to tear down America while hiding behind a race-based name"

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by MistWolf View Post
    Why should suterwyo get another upper or rifle before trying his hand with the 6920? That money would be better spent on ammo (maybe better sights) and going out & shooting what he already has to see how it will work. Buying another upper without knowing what's needed to fill the role (Remember- Mission drives the gear) means the shooter might getting something that won't work any better- and possibly worse- than what they've already got
    I should have been more clear, I have not purchase ANYTHING yet, I wanted to research it a little more and with the information you guys have given me it sounds like the 6920 or comparable, quality rifles will do exactly the job I want. I've got a lot of options to look at.

    Now I need to find one for the right price. The 6920 price in my area has dropped and people are listing them for $1450/new but I still need to get it cheaper than that.

  3. #23
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    Let me see if I can boil it down for you-

    A self defense carbine should be as short as practical. Without paying the tax stamp for a short barreled rifle, that means a 16" barrel. It also needs to be reliable.

    A varmint rifle needs to be as accurate as practical when prairiedogs are included in the mix. Key word here is practical. A heavy profile barrel isn't needed, just take more time between shots to control barrel heat. Barrel length does not affect mechanical accuracy and a 16" barrel gives enough velocity for good trajectory out to 300 yards- more if the shooter does their part. ARs are an inherently accurate design

    An Aimpoint RDS is a very good choice for a defense carbine. A good variable works well for varmints.

    Get a reliable AR carbine with a quality barrel and an RDS and a variable scope with quick release mounts. Worry about a free float tube after you shoot the rifle enough to determine if it will make a difference in shot to shot consistency.

    The Colt 6920 is an excellent AR
    INSIDE PLAN OF BOX
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  4. #24
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    Colt 6940?

    With what you want to do why not go with a Colt 6940? They are identical to the 6920 your already looking at, but with features it sounds like you would benefit from. You could run magnified/variable optics lower on the rail due to the flip up sights thus keeping your optics closer to the bore, and it comes free floated which will help your accuracy. Throw a 1x optic of some sort and a geissele trigger of your choice on it and have an all round performer with second to none reliability. (Btw I have a 6920 and love it. Ordered mine from Grant. Not sure if he has any right now but that's who I'd go to if I ordered again.)

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by suterwyo View Post
    I've been lurking and learning for a while now, getting ready to join the AR club. With 1000's of configurations possible I need a bit more advice though.

    I was in the market for a home defense AR that I could also use for occasional plinking, but defense was the primary focus. I decided on the Colt LE6920. But then I decided I also wanted a weapon for varmint (coyote, prairie dog) shooting too. My budget isn't going to stretch enough for two rifles so I'm looking for one rifle that will fill both demands. Is there an AR that is good all-around for varmint shooting and home defense?

    I just wasn't sure on what barrel length and twist would be ideal for both purposes and wanted to see if anyone uses their AR the way I want to. Not planning on long range varmint shooting, max 200-250 yards. No plans on shooting 1000s of rounds a year either.

    I've search this forum and the internet and haven't found anything that helped me out, so any help I can get is greatly appreciated.
    the zone for a clean kill on a coyote is, what, 5-6 inches? prairie dogs???

    the bullets you will be using on these varmints are super expanding 40- 50 gr???

    I'm not one who thinks a 6920 (or similar) with a red dot sight is a realistic option for what you have asked. if you're a very skilled shooter you can use a duty type rifle with 16" 1/7 twist, chrome lined barrel but I don't think you're giving yourself the benefit of the doubt, especially if you care about the animals you shoot at. and I don't believe anyone who says they can shoot 250 yards with a T-1 and hold 5"...

    IMO, 200-250 yards on varmints requires an accurate gun and magnified optics. personally, I would be looking for a BCM 16" 1/8 twist stainless barreled upper and at least a 1-4 or -6 scope. the 1/8 stainless barrel will handle lighter bullets better than a 1/7 and be significantly more accurate with any bullet weight than a chrome lined barrel. and it will still hold all the accuracy of a 6920 for many, many, many thousands of rounds thereafter.

    the 1-4/6 scope would be a very good option for self defense, as well as reaching out accurately to the distance you have asked about...
    Last edited by ra2bach; 03-25-13 at 23:09.
    never push a wrench...

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ra2bach View Post
    the zone for a clean kill on a coyote is, what, 5-6 inches? prairie dogs???

    the bullets you will be using on these varmints are super expanding 40- 50 gr???

    I'm not one who thinks a 6920 (or similar) with a red dot sight is a realistic option for what you have asked. if you're a very skilled shooter you can use a duty type rifle with 16" 1/7 twist, chrome lined barrel but I don't think you're giving yourself the benefit of the doubt, especially if you care about the animals you shoot at. and I don't believe anyone who says they can shoot 250 yards with a T-1 and hold 5"...

    IMO, 200-250 yards on varmints requires an accurate gun and magnified optics. personally, I would be looking for a BCM 16" 1/8 twist stainless barreled upper and at least a 1-4 or -6 scope. the 1/8 stainless barrel will handle lighter bullets better than a 1/7 and be significantly more accurate with any bullet weight than a chrome lined barrel. and it will still hold all the accuracy of a 6920 for many, many, many thousands of rounds thereafter.

    the 1-4/6 scope would be a very good option for self defense, as well as reaching out accurately to the distance you have asked about...
    Well said ^^^^^^ See my previous post and you can see that ra2bach and I are saying the same thing.........Again, most of the advice you have received here is from folks who are focused on the tactical side of things. It takes more accuracy than most realize to shoot whistle pigs/prairie dogs. A 4X scope will get you out to 100-125 yards for whistle pigs and out to 200-250 for coyotes, yet with a variable down to 1 to 1.5X it will serve well for defense. I would not get a QD mount if it is going to be a vehicle carry gun. Having lived in the Cheyenne area and currently in southern Idaho, I know what your terrain is like..........Take your time and don't get focused on anything yet as you may disappoint yourself with getting something that is not as accurate as you want.

    As for chrome lining, while I am sure there will be somebody to complain about this link, it speaks the truth: http://mapartsinc.com/help/?id=24

    Somebody previously had wisely said and I paraphrase, "decide what your mission requirements are and equip accordingly". You will need to do just that. You will need to ID your strictest requirements. Target, bullet choice and distance are going to drive accuracy requirements. Accuracy is going to dictate optics and barrel choice. The ability to use the weapon reasonably for defensive purposes will dictate configuration (length and weight and optics choice). You will have to meld the requirements to design what you want. Budget is going to be a limiting factor. Build your rifle in your mind according to your mission requirements, then see what you can purchase within your budget. With decent optics, mounts and weapon, if you can get everything for less that $2,500 you are going to be EXTREMELY lucky. But you will be better served in saving your money and waiting to purchase something of quality than pay for something you can afford right now that won't serve for what you need.
    Last edited by Chorizo; 03-26-13 at 10:27.
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  7. #27
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    I would not reduce the usefulness of a defensive carbine for a second purpose. Many here probably feel the same. I would make do with a defensive carbine (and it will do pretty well) until I could afford a second dedicated varmint upper.

    A stainless barrel could get you more accuracy, but many are really too heavy to make a good carbine. I'd recommend the same as above, unless you happen upon a great deal on one that is not too heavy.

    Low power variables are too expensive or too much of a compromise for both jobs. People seem to forget that their popularity comes mostly from offensive carbine users and the PID requirements with our most recent wars.
    Last edited by Todd.K; 03-26-13 at 14:13.

  8. #28
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    Great post Todd.

    suterwyo, a standard, chrome-lined AR15 barrel will do what you need it to do accuracy-wise. Your rate limiting factors in this case are going to be (1) Optics and (2) Ammo. Having personally been back and forth quite a bit with a "do-it-all" AR for both hunting and defense without too many compromises, you simply need to own two different optics and two different kinds of ammo.

    Optics:
    A decent (Leupold, Nikon, Zess) 3-9 or 4-14 hunting scope is exactly what you need for hunting. You don't need a Nightforce with mil-dots, zero stops, and FFP reticle to shoot varmints, but you do need some quality, higher-powered glass.

    For the other side of the coin, most will agree that there is no better fighting optic for the AR15 than an Aimpoint. Simple, fast, rugged. Also, a fighting gun needs a sling and a white light.

    Ammo:
    For varminting and precision, use higher quality match-grade ammo. For defense, you can either use a premium bonded defense load or stock up on a bunch of M855 or M193 (or have some of each). The point I'm making here is that the ammo you shoot will have more effect on your accuracy than your barrel will. I would argue that for durability, corrosion resistance, and ease of maintenance, you would be better off with a chrome lined barrel.

    Now, here's my experience to back up these opinions:

    Daniel Defense 16" LW Chrome-lined CHF barrel. 1.7MOA with match ammo using a 5X Leupold optic @ 100yds:





    Same barrel holding 1.7 MOA with same ammo out to 500 yds using a 9X Zeiss Optic:




    Get some decent QD mounts and you've got a dual-purpose weapon with a quick switch of the optics. Cheaper than buying a second upper or rifle and does each task better than a compromise optic. I even went a little cheap with my mounts using an Aimpoint QRP on the M2 and Warne QD rings with riser blocks for the scope...it works, though! Better choice would be each optic in a Larue mount.


    Semper Paratus Certified AR15 Armorer

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd.K View Post
    I would not reduce the usefulness of a defensive carbine for a second purpose. Many here probably feel the same. I would make do with a defensive carbine (and it will do pretty well) until I could afford a second dedicated varmint upper.

    A stainless barrel could get you more accuracy, but many are really too heavy to make a good carbine. I'd recommend the same as above, unless you happen upon a great deal on one that is not too heavy.

    Low power variables are too expensive or too much of a compromise for both jobs. People seem to forget that their popularity comes mostly from offensive carbine users and the PID requirements with our most recent wars.
    Todd, I would not argue with your logic as you stated it. but I don't think the 16" BCM stainless barrel is too heavy for any defensive work. I have one on my Recce and it's not really significantly heavier than a standard 16". the difference could easily be made up by choice of rail, optic, whatever...

    also, I understand your classification of "offensive" vs defensive use and I agree totally. I even break that down further into RDS with the Aimpoint (due to the battery life) being defensive with the Eotech being offensive but that's another discussion...

    but a lot of people have shown that they can be quite as fast with a good 1-4 as a RDS. certainly the difference is small enough that the bigger issue is training and time to turn on illum.. add in the fact that a good 1-4 can be found about the same price (give or take, used vs new) as an AP or EO and it gets even cloudier...

    one thing I have to remind myself is that MOST people who post here are not professionals. to them, a carbine is a nice tool that has defensive uses as well as sporting and most of these people will never see the limitations of 4140 vs 4150 barrel steel in their lifetimes. to insist that a 6920 (etc..) is the only acceptable carbine while something like a S&W is not, doesn't line up with their needs and uses.

    I don't have any junk guns. all my guns (and optics) were chosen to be the most reliable, durable, and accurate that I could get. but I didn't start out this way. I just got there over time by upgrading, trading, and selling then buying up.

    we're on the same page. I just don't think that even if every problem is a nail, that a sledgehammer is always the solution...
    never push a wrench...

  10. #30
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    Been following this thread, and I'm less than convinced that it can be done on the cheap.
    The OP should decide what he wants most (defense or critter sniping) and pursue that, and then get the other, later.
    It's still possible to do it with one lower and save a little money, and if, over time, sharing the lower doesn't suit, create a second rifle.
    It would seem to me what makes sense is a light, handy KISS carbine for home defense, with fighting sights that allow fast acquisition. Put a Geissele in the lower (I'd go with the SSA to start; it's a clean enough release for varmiting, but heavy enough for scary times), add a weapons light and call it good.
    Eventually add another upper with heavy, free floated barrel and big optics for murdering little creatures at great distances. I'm not convinced that it's possible to swap optics back and forth, at least for the long range work; it may be that the fighting optic will come back to 'minute of bad guy'.
    Compromises are just that; the OP will have to decide what he can live with if he tries to do it all with only one upper.
    Moon

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