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Thread: Looking for a Dual-purpose AR (defense/varmint)

  1. #41
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    16" BCM BFH middy with a rail of your choice and a quality 1x4. Winner, winner chicken dinner.

  2. #42
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    When qualifying in the Marines I used to regularly whack 10 out of 10 in the 5 ring at 500m prone using a standard issue M-16A2 (with god only knows how many rounds fired through it), peep sights and standard issue ball ammo. That despite me being extremely nearsighted and not wearing corrective lenses. I find it difficult to believe a modern M4 style rifle and commercial ammo is not capable of shooting groundhogs or coyote without being specialized to the task.

    I guess I'll find out for myself soon once my 'smith finishes my 14.5 upper. I will be disappointed if it shoots minute of barn door at 200 yards considering my pellet guns are capable of at least 1.5MOA at 100 yards and under 1/2MOA at 50 yards.
    Last edited by bigbang; 03-28-13 at 22:19.
    NRA Life Member, NAHC Life Member, GOA member

  3. #43
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    In case you are an Easterner and have never seen or shot a whistle pig in the Rocky Mountain West. Whistle pigs and rock chuck are two different things. A whistle pig (piute ground squirrel in Idaho) is about 8" long and about 1.5 " wide. A rock chuck (ground hog) is about the size of a medium dog. Shooting whistle pigs at 100-200 yards requires sub-MOA accuracy, rock chucks doesn't require near the accuracy. Coyotes certainly don't either. And I am not saying get a specialized gun. I have a mid-length 16" M-4 style with a heavy fluted wilson barrel with standard flash suppressor without all the tacticool rails on it other than a small one on the bayo lug to attach a light. I do have an optic that serves dual purpose (leupold VX-R Patrol) I had it out yesterday shooting whistle pigs....is it as good as my bolt 17 HMR out to 100 yards? Hell no, but it also doesn't have a 12 power scope so it is hard to see them and get a good hold on them. It is as accurate enough with sub-MOA though, only being limited at beyond 100 yards by a 4 power scope to get a bead on the little fellows.

    Remember what the OP wanted....a DUAL-PURPOSE gun. So he needs some decent optics and some better than average accuracy with a M-4 size package.

    Using your accuracy comparison of the 500 meter Bravo target (which is 40" x 20") you would only require a 4" MOA (20" wide at 500 meters). Again whistle pig that is 1.5" wide at 100 meters = 1.5" MOA ........B target at 500 meters = 4" MOA

    So...........to shoot little things at 200 meters can NOT be compared to shooting the B Target at 500 meters if you are saying all you have to do is hit it 10 times out of 10.

    Before you launch off......I have shot at both, getting my share of KD courses in 21 years.
    Last edited by Chorizo; 03-29-13 at 10:21.
    USMC, 21 years and 21 days. But who was counting?

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by warner41 View Post
    16" BCM BFH middy with a rail of your choice and a quality 1x4. Winner, winner chicken dinner.

    Yes, yes it would be!
    USMC, 21 years and 21 days. But who was counting?

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by suterwyo View Post
    I've been lurking and learning for a while now, getting ready to join the AR club. With 1000's of configurations possible I need a bit more advice though.

    I was in the market for a home defense AR that I could also use for occasional plinking, but defense was the primary focus. I decided on the Colt LE6920. But then I decided I also wanted a weapon for varmint (coyote, prairie dog) shooting too. My budget isn't going to stretch enough for two rifles so I'm looking for one rifle that will fill both demands. Is there an AR that is good all-around for varmint shooting and home defense?

    I just wasn't sure on what barrel length and twist would be ideal for both purposes and wanted to see if anyone uses their AR the way I want to. Not planning on long range varmint shooting, max 200-250 yards. No plans on shooting 1000s of rounds a year either.

    I've search this forum and the internet and haven't found anything that helped me out, so any help I can get is greatly appreciated.
    I put together a rifle with exactly this criteria in mind (except the low round count, wanted it to handle as many rounds as I could afford to put through it in a year, year after year)

    I use a 16" 1/7 twist with 55 vmax and Nosler BT for coyotes, accuracy is excellant out to 200 yd (have not personally tested these further), and no problems with your concerns on the boolits spinning apart. This, IMHO is a 250 yard coyote setup. Calculated drop is 3.6 inches with a 200 yard zero at 250 (becomes 8.9 at 300). Your milage may vary, but here in michigan, most shots are well under 200 yards due to woods and hills, very few oppertunities for further shots. I think this is the easier part of you question. Any quality AR with a flat top, 16 inch barrel will fill both rolls just fine. Mine is a BCM with CHF barrel.

    The more difficult question is what optic/no optic to run. I started with a Leupold vari x 3, 1.75 x 6 in a Larue quick detach mount. Was it perfect for both rolls? Probably not. but it worked. This mount will return to zero close enough (easily less than 1/2 in at 100 yards) for coyotes. For home defense, the scope was removed and the BUIS employed and this is the way it normally would be found. When funds allowed, I added an Aimpoint, also on quick detach. I now do all my hunting with Aimpoint (2 MOA dot.) It is very capable of hits on coyote size game out to 200 yards. It is very easy to keep rounds inside an 8 in circle from field shooting positions. As a side note, My Daughter also used the setup, with aimpoint and 62 gr fed fusion to bag her first Deer this past Sept. at 50 yards with one shot!

    Whatever you decide, practice is key to determining what you and your rig are capable of. Do I think 300 or 400 yard shots on coyotes is plausible? yes, but I would not personally take that shot in the field, I owe the game more respect than to take questionable shots for my ability and kit setup.


    good luck

    semper fi
    Last edited by travellightfreezeatnight; 03-29-13 at 11:06. Reason: add photo

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chorizo View Post
    Using your accuracy comparison of the 500 meter Bravo target (which is 40" x 20") you would only require a 4" MOA (20" wide at 500 meters). Again whistle pig that is 1.5" wide at 100 meters = 1.5" MOA ........B target at 500 meters = 4" MOA

    So...........to shoot little things at 200 meters can NOT be compared to shooting the B Target at 500 meters if you are saying all you have to do is hit it 10 times out of 10.

    Before you launch off......I have shot at both, getting my share of KD courses in 21 years.
    I'm glad you shot at 500m targets in the Marines, Semper Fi. How well do you qualify? Do they make an Expert badge with a 21st award thing under it?

    So, what you're saying is that my pellet guns are accurate enough but an AR15 is not? LOL, well, I guess I'm either going to be really disappointed or some of you guys can't shoot longer distances.

    I've embarrassed a few centerfire rifle shooters at the 100 yard range with my pellet guns and thought they just couldn't shoot for shit. I would have never thought an AR15 isn't accurate. Who woulda thunk it?
    Last edited by bigbang; 03-29-13 at 13:13.
    NRA Life Member, NAHC Life Member, GOA member

  7. #47
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    They do make 11 award bars! Back in my day, once you made Major, you only qualified with a pistol. Now it is LtCol or less.

    Expert every trip at pistol and rifle.

    ARs can be accurate platforms, but most with chrome lining are 1.5-2 MOA shooters and that is 3"-4" at 200 meters. When you are shooting at something that is 2" wide, then you need something that shoots a smaller group than 2" at 200 meters!

    I was out shooting rock chuck this morning with a Remington R-15 two-stage trigger with a free-floated, fluted 18" barrel with a Luepold 6-18x VXIII in .223 with 50 grain V-max AE Federals...........it shoots .7 MOA with that factory load and I was popping the ( significantly bigger than whistle pigs) chucks in still wind at 300 yards. 11 shots, 9 chucks. One miss due to shooting at just a head sticking up, the other I pulled to the right. The AR platform can be VERY accurate.

    Semper Fi.
    Last edited by Chorizo; 03-29-13 at 16:30.
    USMC, 21 years and 21 days. But who was counting?

  8. #48
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    No need for a specialized AR for your needs. Get the Colt and you can use it for everything you want to do. Just about every AR on the market right now is accurate enough for Varmit work at the ranges you expect to shoot too! Shoot 55 gr SP ammo. Or go to 60gr SP and it should be very accurate in the 1:7" twist. If you reload the options for making varmit ammo are large. You can mount a scope on that Colt if you need long range percision! Only thing you may want to do is get a nice after market trigger.

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