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Thread: Looking for a Dual-purpose AR (defense/varmint)

  1. #31
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    This thread reminds me of a particular phrase...

    "Jack of all trades, master of none."

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prairie Patriot View Post
    From what I understand, if you go with a 1:7 twist rifle (the Colt) bullets with a grain less than 50 or so will sometimes cause the bullet to spin itself apart. You could plink varmints with 55 gain ball and probably be just fine. 1:7 twist will stabilize everything up to 77 grain for sure reliably.

    If I am wrong about the information above, then someone please feel free to correct me.
    Noveske tested this (I think it was John himself, pretty sure it was Joel I spoke to the three-ish years ago I called them up) and found it to occur only at extremely high speeds (3000+ FPS), with extremely tight twists, and most importantly with weak bullets and bullet designs. If your 16" 1:7-twist barrel is spinning bullets apart, they would've been spun apart by any ol' barrel.
    RIP, Jeff Dorr: 1964 - July 17, 2009


    "When young men seek to be like you, when lazy men resent you, when powerful men look over their shoulder at you, when cowardly men plot behind your back, when corrupt men wish you were gone and evil men want you dead . . . Only then will you have done your share." - Phil Messina

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by ra2bach View Post

    but a lot of people have shown that they can be quite as fast with a good 1-4 as a RDS. certainly the difference is small enough that the bigger issue is training and time to turn on illum.. add in the fact that a good 1-4 can be found about the same price (give or take, used vs new) as an AP or EO and it gets even cloudier...
    Which 1x4's are you seeing for the same price as an Aimpoint? I haven't shopped them much, but the NSX is around 1200 and the short dot is over 2k, right?

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cazwell View Post
    Which 1x4's are you seeing for the same price as an Aimpoint? I haven't shopped them much, but the NSX is around 1200 and the short dot is over 2k, right?
    The Burris XTR 1-4X can be found for RDS prices. So can the, Leatherwood/Hi-lux, Vortex Viper PST, Nikon M-223, and the Leopold Mark AR scopes, for the budget minded.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by kmrtnsn View Post
    The Burris XTR 1-4X can be found for RDS prices. So can the, Leatherwood/Hi-lux, Vortex Viper PST, Nikon M-223, and the Leopold Mark AR scopes, for the budget minded.

    The Luepold VX-R Patrol with SPR firedot works well for me. Lighted at 1.5X for defensive use, unlighted 4X for varmint use. $585 delivered

    http://www.opticsplanet.com/leupold-...25-4x20mm.html

    As for accuracy: 1.7" groups with match ammo is not very good when talking varmint shooting, at least not good enough for shooting prairie dogs/whistle pigs at 100 yards. You would want to be able to shrink that by half if you could. A gun may be more inherently accurate than that, but because of a large lighted dot, you may not be able to hold a precise POA.

    http://quarterbore.com/library/articles/varminting.html

    http://www.varmintal.com/ashot.htm


    A jack of all trades, but a master of none is exactly what he wants. Unless you are going to be clearing rooms in CQB or having to shoot zombies, which damn few folks are going to do, no matter their personal fantasies of EOW scenarios or shoot whistle pigs out to 500/600 yards, you do not need to build to the extreme ends of either weapon spectrum and there is middle ground to be had that can do both.....I know, I have one and do with it just what the OP is proposing to do with his.
    Last edited by Chorizo; 03-27-13 at 09:19.
    USMC, 21 years and 21 days. But who was counting?

  6. #36
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    How well a basic rifle fills nearly any role would surprise many people. My son had fun hunting prairie-dogs with a lever action .22

    You don't need a golfbag full of rifles to fill every role. The reality is, a basic carbine that's reliable with a quality barrel is very versatile. In all honesty, many accessories are not needed. Specialty rifles do certain tasks better, but usually cost more and for how much gain? The majority of fitting a rifle for a specific task lies with selecting the right sight. Look how well the Mosin Nagant sertved as a sniper rifle. It isn't particularly accurate, is clumsy to operate and used a low powered scope. Yet it was was very effective on the battlefield. A standard M4 with a low powered optic is even more effective. Yet folks think we need all kind of stuff to make it work
    INSIDE PLAN OF BOX
    1. ROAD-RUNNER LIFTS GLASS OF WATER- PULLING UP MATCH
    2. MATCH SCRATCHES ON MATCH-BOX
    3. MATCH LIGHTS FUSE TO TNT
    4. BOOM!
    5. HA-HA!!

    -WILE E. COYOTE, AUTHOR OF "EVERYTHING I NEEDED TO KNOW IN LIFE, I LEARNED FROM GOLDBERG & MURPHY"

    http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/AR%20Carbine/DSC_0114.jpg
    I am American

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cazwell View Post
    Which 1x4's are you seeing for the same price as an Aimpoint? I haven't shopped them much, but the NSX is around 1200 and the short dot is over 2k, right?
    http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=127175
    never push a wrench...

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAC View Post
    Noveske tested this (I think it was John himself, pretty sure it was Joel I spoke to the three-ish years ago I called them up) and found it to occur only at extremely high speeds (3000+ FPS), with extremely tight twists, and most importantly with weak bullets and bullet designs. If your 16" 1:7-twist barrel is spinning bullets apart, they would've been spun apart by any ol' barrel.
    most pelt hunters use a very fragile 40-45gr bullet for coyotes. speeds for this would be over 3300fps. most of the guns that shoot that bullet are 1/12 twist.
    never push a wrench...

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by MistWolf View Post
    How well a basic rifle fills nearly any role would surprise many people. My son had fun hunting prairie-dogs with a lever action .22

    You don't need a golfbag full of rifles to fill every role. The reality is, a basic carbine that's reliable with a quality barrel is very versatile. In all honesty, many accessories are not needed. Specialty rifles do certain tasks better, but usually cost more and for how much gain? The majority of fitting a rifle for a specific task lies with selecting the right sight. Look how well the Mosin Nagant sertved as a sniper rifle. It isn't particularly accurate, is clumsy to operate and used a low powered scope. Yet it was was very effective on the battlefield. A standard M4 with a low powered optic is even more effective. Yet folks think we need all kind of stuff to make it work
    exactly. but while some people here want to stretch a duty type rifle over to precision use, I would sooner swerve a more accurate stainless barrel to duty use. it's about the same price as a BFH upper with more accuracy...
    never push a wrench...

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by ra2bach View Post
    exactly. but while some people here want to stretch a duty type rifle over to precision use, I would sooner swerve a more accurate stainless barrel to duty use. it's about the same price as a BFH upper with more accuracy...
    Yes. A quality stainless steel barrel would work great.
    INSIDE PLAN OF BOX
    1. ROAD-RUNNER LIFTS GLASS OF WATER- PULLING UP MATCH
    2. MATCH SCRATCHES ON MATCH-BOX
    3. MATCH LIGHTS FUSE TO TNT
    4. BOOM!
    5. HA-HA!!

    -WILE E. COYOTE, AUTHOR OF "EVERYTHING I NEEDED TO KNOW IN LIFE, I LEARNED FROM GOLDBERG & MURPHY"

    http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/AR%20Carbine/DSC_0114.jpg
    I am American

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