Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: The Gunslingers Dojo...Chi / Ki...

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    25,500
    Feedback Score
    2 (100%)

    The Gunslingers Dojo...Chi / Ki...

    It's not surprising that those of us who are interested in defensive firearms might be interested in other aspects of personal defense such as martial arts. And if you think there is a lot of misinformation regarding firearms on the internet, just start reading martial arts forums. There is a reason it has been largely reduced to motivational day care for children.

    So this topic is what I hope will be the first of a series to provide more credible information and more importantly help others discern signal from noise as they explore the idea of martial arts instruction.

    And nowhere is there more noise then when it comes to ideas of "chi" (Chinese) or "ki" (Japanese).



    The character is made from the radical meaning "breath, air" combined with the character "kome" which means "rice." The combination of the ideas of "air to breath" and "food to eat" expresses the idea of a "life force" or "essence of life."

    There is also another character pronounce "ki" that looks somewhat similar and many westerners assume this is the correct meaning of the word and that character translates as "spirit, soul, etc."

    So we have a word for life giving "force" that is often confused with a character for "spirit or soul" and you now have everything you need for any marginally informed westerner to complete misunderstand and abuse the idea in ways never intended. That it is often translated as "internal energy" or "internal strength" only makes it worse.

    The use of the radical for "breathing" is significant because ki is controlled and regulated by special breathing exercises. It is a "life force" but so is blood circulation and we really shouldn't imply any more importance to one than the other.

    Problem is when you raise the subject of ki you might as well start talking religion. On one end of the camp are people who think it is a "force" that gives them magical and mystical superhuman powers and on the other end of the camp are people at Bullshido who seem convinced that acupuncture is nonsense and only works due to a placebo effect. As with most things the answer exists between the two opinions.

    So first off it exists. Everyone has it and anyone can learn to use it. Everyone also breathes and has blood circulating. So what can you do with it and why learn about it?

    Well there are certain martial applications. You can use it to protect parts of the body, you can use it to make parts of the body a more effective weapon. You can also promote better health. All within reason.

    You cannot learn to levitate, read minds, cure cancer, make yourself bulletproof or any of the other absurd claims master of chi / ki often suggest. It is NOT the Force from Star Wars. If you meet anyone making such claims to correct protocol is to immediately punch them in the face as hard as possible. This is how you recognize a TRUE master of ki because you know he cannot possibly be harmed.

    That sad reality is probably 95% of the demonstrations of "chi / ki" that I've seen are fraudulent. The people have either fooled themselves into believing they posses something mystical, have mistaken an unrelated skill or ability for "chi" or in most cases are perpetrating a deliberate scam designed to fool people like a magician. There is almost a complete art devoted to faking demonstrations of "internal power" and I have seen many masters.

    The supreme irony of all of this is that this "secret skill" possessed by only a "learned few" is nothing of the sort. Before you dedicate 12 years of your life to training with the guy from the local Chinese restaurant who is a master of Chi Gung and Tai Chi you might want to try here first.

    The Secret of Youth: Da Mo's Muscle/Tendon Changing and Marrow/Brain Washing Classics by Jwing-Ming Yang

    Dr. Yang Jwing Ming probably knows more about this subject than any other individual in North America.

    For centuries this was the secret hidden manual jealously guarded by Taoist masters that men literally lived and died for. There was a time in history when the people who knew the entire contents of the book were perhaps no more than a dozen men.

    It can now be had on Amazon for $18.95 with free shipping. You don't even have to shave your head or pledge your life to a monastery.

    I'm not going to attempt to teach anyone chi cultivation on the internet, if you are interested pick up the book. Basically it amounts to seated breathing exercises called the Lohan forms which are designed to cultivate and circulate chi throughout the body in more efficient ways. And before that starts sounding like magic it's a lot more like concentrated will power than casting spells to make your arm hard enough to withstand lead pipe blows.

    No matter how efficient a person may be at the various internal arts, the body has limits and breaking points. If anyone ever suggests otherwise immediately punch them in the face to recognize a true master.

    If any of this sounds interesting you may want to explore the following styles.

    Tai Chi (aka Taiji) - Generally comes in two flavors, Yang and Chen style. Yang is the style you see old people do in the park for improved health, Chen is the original that is almost never seen that can be used to win fights.

    Chi Gung - Somewhat related to Tai Chi and often viewed as a pre requisite to studying Tai Chi. Once it was simply a subset of Tai Chi now it has become it's own practice. Be wary as there are far more instructors who don't understand the first thing about genuine Chi Gung than there are those who do.

    There are probably dozens of other Chinese boxing styles which include Pa Kua (Bagwa), Hsing I (Xingyi) and several Wudan based systems.

    On the Japanese spectrum Aikido is the most commonly encountered internal system. It comes in several schools which have dramatically different emphasis. For example Tomiki style is sport oriented, the Aikido taught by Yoshimitsu Yamada is meant for conflict. Yoshinkan style is also a combative method.
    It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.

    Chuck, we miss ya man.

    كافر

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Pleasure Island
    Posts
    2,338
    Feedback Score
    5 (100%)


    I always look for free shipping with my brain washing classics

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    25,500
    Feedback Score
    2 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by theblackknight View Post


    I always look for free shipping with my brain washing classics
    I guess at least someone read it.



    The subject might have been a tad too esoteric for a first installment.
    It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.

    Chuck, we miss ya man.

    كافر

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Pleasure Island
    Posts
    2,338
    Feedback Score
    5 (100%)

    Re: The Gunslingers Dojo...Chi / Ki...

    I read it 3 times. It wasn't as bad as brain enos rambling, but my intro to the subject was "xen of guitar" 10 years ago and it was very easy to digest.

    sent from mah gun,using my sights

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    7,711
    Feedback Score
    10 (100%)
    Hey SteyrAUG.... got a question for you.....

    I generally never mention this because it's like telling someone you saw a UFO. I honestly don;t even care what

    people think any longer so here goes.....

    When I was younger I studied Yang style as well as some Chi Gung, Pa Kua. The guy I studies with started learning

    when he was a kid. As far as I know that is all he has ever done in his life. No school, he just teaches it and

    practices it.

    I had previously studied Tae Kwon Do and didn't really like it. I did really like Tai Chi but stopped practicing for

    reasons that don;t really matter... But anyway I believe this guy and his friend are what you would call the real

    deal. Happy to tell you there names via PM. they are in VA.

    Anyway..... the first time I met him he was teaching a class and invited me join in. As you know the circular

    walking and changing directions. Arms outstretched, palm facing forward. Well at one instant, we changed direction

    and were facing opposite each other adn I felt what I can only describe as what seemed like an energy force that

    came out of his palm through the air which I would say was several inches, into my arm up just past the elbow. It

    sort of felt like when your leg goes to sleep but without pain. Only lasted an instant. It kinda startled me to be

    honest.

    Have you ever heard of, experienced anything like that? I have always heard about internal energy and such but that

    is the only time I have actually ever physically felt something that I have no other explanation for. It was not

    subtle. I mean I stopped and wanted to know what the hell was that.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    25,500
    Feedback Score
    2 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by tb-av View Post
    Hey SteyrAUG.... got a question for you.....

    I generally never mention this because it's like telling someone you saw a UFO. I honestly don;t even care what

    people think any longer so here goes.....

    When I was younger I studied Yang style as well as some Chi Gung, Pa Kua. The guy I studies with started learning

    when he was a kid. As far as I know that is all he has ever done in his life. No school, he just teaches it and

    practices it.

    I had previously studied Tae Kwon Do and didn't really like it. I did really like Tai Chi but stopped practicing for

    reasons that don;t really matter... But anyway I believe this guy and his friend are what you would call the real

    deal. Happy to tell you there names via PM. they are in VA.

    Anyway..... the first time I met him he was teaching a class and invited me join in. As you know the circular

    walking and changing directions. Arms outstretched, palm facing forward. Well at one instant, we changed direction

    and were facing opposite each other adn I felt what I can only describe as what seemed like an energy force that

    came out of his palm through the air which I would say was several inches, into my arm up just past the elbow. It

    sort of felt like when your leg goes to sleep but without pain. Only lasted an instant. It kinda startled me to be

    honest.

    Have you ever heard of, experienced anything like that? I have always heard about internal energy and such but that

    is the only time I have actually ever physically felt something that I have no other explanation for. It was not

    subtle. I mean I stopped and wanted to know what the hell was that.
    Well the first issue is Yang style Tai Chi.

    Tai Chi (Grand Ultimate Boxing) was at the time one of the most advanced boxing styles in the world and perhaps one of the highest expressions of genuine martial arts. It was mostly the domain of the Chen family. As it was recognized as far superior to the existing long fist boxing styles the Manchu family (current Emperor of China) demanded instruction from the Chen family.

    This put the Chen family in an awkward position as they, like many others, viewed the Ching Emporer and his family as foreign invaders who usurped the legitimate rule of China when they ended the Ming Dynasty and they did not wish to instruct what they considered an occupying foreign government. So they modified the family boxing style in such a way as to render it almost completely useless for combative applications. This modification is known today as Yang Tai Chi and is the most widely known style of Tai Chi in the world. When you see parks full of elderly people doing Tai Chi, it is the Yang Style. Even with the useful combative applications removed or modified it is still a beneficial holistic exercise that promotes good health and circulation.

    The original and orthodox internal boxing method came to be known as Chen Tai Chi and was kept secret from the Manchu and as a result was unknown by the majority of the population. Everyone instead practiced the Yang style as was taught by the Chens to the Imperial family. Even today Chen Tai Chi (especially the real thing taught correctly) can be hard to find and many people professing to teach Chen Boxing are no more qualified than the NY based Jeet Kune Do schools of the mid 1970s.

    Now it certainly wouldn't be the first time that somebody studying Yang Tai Chi made some significant personal discoveries regarding applications. And stories of "extending chi" are quite common and include projecting warmth, force and other forms of "energy" beyond the body. One notable practitioner John Painter could reportedly extinguish a candle with his "Dragon Breath Palm" which people insisted wasn't simply forced air.

    The problem with all of these examples is unlike say acupuncture, they have not been repeatedly demonstrated under a controlled environment. There is also the problem with the human brain and it's tendency towards associations that may have no genuine connection. If sifu is moving close to me, did he just zap me with the force or am I building static electricity gliding across a carpet? Not really saying that is the explanation regarding your experience, just an example of common assumptions.

    Now certainly internal energy can be a weapon of sorts. Just like acupuncture and acupressure correct balance and promote healing you can do the opposite and systems such as Tien Hsueh and Dim Mak are based upon the same concepts. Although finding actual instructors of either discipline is almost as difficult as mastering the system itself. Extending the same energy beyond the body to do anything of any significance would obviously be even more difficult and rare.
    It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.

    Chuck, we miss ya man.

    كافر

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    7,711
    Feedback Score
    10 (100%)
    So0... let me tell you about the UFO I saw....

    No seriously, That's pretty much what I thought you would say.

    I have no explanation... I'm sure it wasn't static electricity. We were in an empty warehouse, wood floors, rubber sole shoes, warm day.

    I've even considered was I somehow mentally predisposed to want something to happen. The only thing is... I had been in Tae Kwon Do for a couple years or so and never had any "energy experience" although the topic was always present. In addition, I met this guy by accident and this was the first day I had ever experienced any of the Chinese arts. As I watched, I thought what the hell, they are not doing anything.... or so it seemed to me... Then they changed up to the circular walking, and I was thinking man this is crazy but I didn't want to leave rudely.... so if anything I was of opposite mind to "have an experience"

    I still to this day have no explanation, physical or mental. Basically the consensus is " yeah, I heard about this guy that can chop a brick in half with a piece of toilet paper" ...

    But I agree, it's hard to believe that it's possible. But what I experienced was a deliberate action ( to the best of my ability to reason ).

    I just took a look at some of my books. The only text that he said was worth buying was T'AI-CHI by Cheg Man-ch'ing and Robert W. Smith

    The guy I studied with ... if I am recalling this correctly , used to get on a bus, ride up to I -think- Baltimore from Richmond. Take classes from Robert Smith and then basically write notes and study guides and draw moves and such on his way home.

    The "other guy", his friend I never really knew too much about. I actually met him first and he was the one that suggested I go to that initial class ( upon learning I had been in TKD ). I would have never in my wildest dreams imagined this guy was into martial arts but apparently he was the more experienced of the two.

    I'll PM you their names, maybe you have run across them in your travels. I know they used to get around a bit.

    This really brings back old memories. I guess this was 25 years ago now.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    2,908
    Feedback Score
    8 (100%)
    Studied Aikido for a few years.
    http://www.milwaukeeaikido.org/html/mamura_sensei.html
    Hombu Dojo Aikido.
    Now I think they moved to Saotome's Aikido.

    The power the human body can possess through diligent training is amazing.
    I've seen some pretty incredible things, and was fortunate enough to train under some very accomplished Sensei.
    Quote Originally Posted by scottryan View Post
    Anybody that owns or sells pistol versions of assault rifles is a bottom feeder, irregardless of the ban status of certain ammunition.

    They are illigetimate weapons that have no real purpose other than to attract retards to the gun community.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    25,500
    Feedback Score
    2 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by tb-av View Post
    So0... let me tell you about the UFO I saw....

    No seriously, That's pretty much what I thought you would say.

    I have no explanation... I'm sure it wasn't static electricity. We were in an empty warehouse, wood floors, rubber sole shoes, warm day.

    I've even considered was I somehow mentally predisposed to want something to happen. The only thing is... I had been in Tae Kwon Do for a couple years or so and never had any "energy experience" although the topic was always present. In addition, I met this guy by accident and this was the first day I had ever experienced any of the Chinese arts. As I watched, I thought what the hell, they are not doing anything.... or so it seemed to me... Then they changed up to the circular walking, and I was thinking man this is crazy but I didn't want to leave rudely.... so if anything I was of opposite mind to "have an experience"

    I still to this day have no explanation, physical or mental. Basically the consensus is " yeah, I heard about this guy that can chop a brick in half with a piece of toilet paper" ...

    But I agree, it's hard to believe that it's possible. But what I experienced was a deliberate action ( to the best of my ability to reason ).

    I just took a look at some of my books. The only text that he said was worth buying was T'AI-CHI by Cheg Man-ch'ing and Robert W. Smith

    The guy I studied with ... if I am recalling this correctly , used to get on a bus, ride up to I -think- Baltimore from Richmond. Take classes from Robert Smith and then basically write notes and study guides and draw moves and such on his way home.

    The "other guy", his friend I never really knew too much about. I actually met him first and he was the one that suggested I go to that initial class ( upon learning I had been in TKD ). I would have never in my wildest dreams imagined this guy was into martial arts but apparently he was the more experienced of the two.

    I'll PM you their names, maybe you have run across them in your travels. I know they used to get around a bit.

    This really brings back old memories. I guess this was 25 years ago now.
    If your guy was involved with Robert Smith then his training is absolutely credible.

    And again, I wasn't completely discounting your experience. I have seen and experienced a lot of things. I can even demonstrate a thing or two. I'm just recognizing that the jury is still out on the conclusive evidence part.
    It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.

    Chuck, we miss ya man.

    كافر

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    30
    Feedback Score
    0
    I've been meaning to do some research into the subject, but like you, have been disappointed by 95% of all the BS. Will take a look, I mean $20 is like 4 cheeseburgers for ancient Chinese knowledge.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •