1-6 and 1-8 Optics

[TehLlama]

I did a T&E on one of their 1-6.5x Elite Tactical scopes and the only thing I found lacking was the cheap plastic turret knobs and the illumination was not daylight visible. Looks like the turrets on the 1-8.5 are rock solid as they are the same as the turrets on their HDMR line. Now of they improved the illumination this it might be the best 1-8x bargain on the market.

If the illum is there for daytime, and the eye box at high zoom is actually usable, then Bushnell have a winning optic. The Leupy Mk6 is a bit kneecapped by the dumb illumination eye box thing (doesn't bother me, but I can see how people are willing to write off the entire optic at the asking price because of it), and while the CMR-W reticle is among the best I've used, the HDMR derived reticle on the Bushnell seems like it will work - as long as the illumination is there.

[Alaskapopo]

I have looked through a friends 1-6.5 and the illumination was not daylight bright at least not unless you had a lot of overcast. Not a bad scope in other respects but that is a deal killer or me.
Pat

[Failure2Stop]

The reticle is bold enough in 2FP that not being daylight bright is like criticizing iron sights for not being daylight bright.

And, unlike irons, you can get the reticle to stand out from dark backgrounds with the illumination.

I might like it "better" if it was daylight visible, but it is completely usable as is. Not telling anyone that they should buy it, just passing my experience with it over the past 6 months or so.

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[ra2bach]

The reticle is bold enough in 2FP that not being daylight bright is like criticizing iron sights for not being daylight bright.

And, unlike irons, you can get the reticle to stand out from dark backgrounds with the illumination.

I might like it "better" if it was daylight visible, but it is completely usable as is. Not telling anyone that they should buy it, just passing my experience with it over the past 6 months or so.

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Praise Jehovah for someone with credibility finally saying this...

I know "daylight bright" is the only objective for some but I've never had any trouble using UNilluminated scopes hunting in all lighting conditions. the brighter the ambient is, the better they work. only when it gets almost too dark to see is illum necessary and then it needs to be as dim as possible...

[Alaskapopo]

The reticle is bold enough in 2FP that not being daylight bright is like criticizing iron sights for not being daylight bright.

And, unlike irons, you can get the reticle to stand out from dark backgrounds with the illumination.

I might like it "better" if it was daylight visible, but it is completely usable as is. Not telling anyone that they should buy it, just passing my experience with it over the past 6 months or so.

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We will have to disagree as Irons are harder to see against darker targets and don't allow you to use the bindon point aiming concept. I respect your opinion but for me a daylight bright reticle (aimpoint bright) is a must.
Pat

[Boba Fett v2]

For a variable power scope I don't get too wrapped up over daylight brightness. I've never found it to be a hindrance, and have been perfectly fine with using the reticle with or without illumination during the daylight. I know this is a deal killer for a lot of people, but it just seems like good glass often gets written off for what I consider a luxury feature.

[TehLlama]

The reticle is bold enough in 2FP that not being daylight bright is like criticizing iron sights for not being daylight bright.

And, unlike irons, you can get the reticle to stand out from dark backgrounds with the illumination.

I might like it "better" if it was daylight visible, but it is completely usable as is. Not telling anyone that they should buy it, just passing my experience with it over the past 6 months or so.

Lump me in with the lot where I can't picture not caring about the ability to mentally just pick out the bright shiny dot and aim there as the go-to option. The reticles that do work well sans illumination at 1x still are hard to pick up the exact center if you're looking at high contrast (usually shaded) areas, especially if there are leaves in the background moving around too - the 'non daytime' illumination works brilliantly for here, but coming from somebody so spoiled by the moron-proofed illumination of ACOGs and Aimpoints, I'm so partial to that feature that I won't consider an optic unless it has that capability.

You're both totally right that it's an absolute luxury feature, but I'm with Akpopo on this, if I'm selling myself on the utility of a low powered variable being the solution for both long range zoomed function AND up close reflex sight-like function, it needs to be quick across all conditions on the latter, and the closer it behaves to an aimpoint the more likely I am to chose it over other optics (like the ACOG) which may have other flaws and worse glass, but are fast for that task.

On a car, A/C is a luxury feature, but if plan on using that vehicle to tool around Phoenix while wearing a suit, it starts looking less optional.

For the way I WANT to use these sorts of optics, I put (a probably excessively) huge amount of emphasis on how simple it is for me to quickly find the point of aim at low zoom - enough that I'll make compromises on the quality of glass, field of view, chromatic correctness, top end zoom, weight, or cost just to have that feature.

[Failure2Stop]

We will have to disagree as Irons are harder to see against darker targets and don't allow you to use the bindon point aiming concept. I respect your opinion but for me a daylight bright reticle (aimpoint bright) is a must.
Pat

On a dark background, the illumination makes the reticle stand out just fine.
I crank the illum up for use, knowing that it will be obvious on both light and dark backgrounds.

Again, if I could make the illum brighter, I would, but it is not nearly the hindrance that a lot of folks assume without having time behind the optic.

Side note: the only people that lend any belief to the BAC being "created" by Bindon/Trijicon is Bindon/Trijicon. Everybody else in the world just calls it "shooting with both eyes open with a bold reticle".





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[Alaskapopo]

On a dark background, the illumination makes the reticle stand out just fine.
I crank the illum up for use, knowing that it will be obvious on both light and dark backgrounds.

Again, if I could make the illum brighter, I would, but it is not nearly the hindrance that a lot of folks assume without having time behind the optic.

Side note: the only people that lend any belief to the BAC being "created" by Bindon/Trijicon is Bindon/Trijicon. Everybody else in the world just calls it "shooting with both eyes open with a bold reticle".





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Its just not for me. I like a bright light reticle for close in work. It stands out better so my eye picks it up faster. If I have a less than perfect mount on the gun I can still shoot using my left eye to see the target and my right eye can see the lit reticle even though the rest of the scope is blacked out. (this is what I am talking about by BAC)

I understand that you can use a scope with a standard black reticle and some use them very well but I find they are a disadvantage.
Pat

[Failure2Stop]

For the way I WANT to use these sorts of optics, I put (a probably excessively) huge amount of emphasis on how simple it is for me to quickly find the point of aim at low zoom - enough that I'll make compromises on the quality of glass, field of view, chromatic correctness, top end zoom, weight, or cost just to have that feature.

I snipped the rest, as this is what I read as the boiled down essence of your post.

Anyway...

I personally find the 2FP reticle to be the only way to go here. Actually, it's kind of ironic that I am defending a Bushnell, especially one that I have had for less than a year, but having initially been on the "aimpoint bright or bust" side of the argument, I feel compelled to urge people not to fixate on that single aspect, especially given how frequently 2032 batteries don't work when you need them. Also, at close range with mounted high output lights, the white light is pretty much always going to overpower the illumination of the reticle. Even Aimpoints and EoTechs are victim to this if not at a high/highest seeing. This is not a concern with a bold etched reticle that draws the eye.

I much prefer a reticle that does not require illumination to be effective. Granted, generally they will not be as useful on a black-dark background, however, for those times that the 2032 does work, the illumination will pretty much always work on the dark target/background.

Agreed that a rapidly identifiable aiming point is essential. The Bushy is like a reverse ACOG; it's bright when you need it to be and bold enough to still be usable when the illumination is insufficient. Seriously, if you think the COG is good, you will have no complaints at all with this guy.


In short: would it be better if the illumination was brighter? Yes.
However, it works decently in it's current 2FP existence.
At the end of the day, it's the singer, not the song, and finding what works for you is far more important than what works for me.


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