AR Grizzly Medicine...

[DDM4LV1]

I think people have given some good insight as to what calibers would be good and it seems you have a good collections of calibers. I have heard stories of hunted bear that when processing the bear they found 9mm rounds that didn't even pass through the bears fat.

Another thing I would suggest to go with the correct caliber gun is finding something on bear sounds. I wish I could find the episode of this show on sportmans channel for you to watch but I cannot. They went through a ton of sounds bears make and what they mean from feeding sounds, to I don't want to hurt you just leave me alone sounds to you better not take one more step or I am going to shred your ass. One sounds I remember that you cant mistake is this jaw clapping sounds bears make and it doesn't mean the bear wants to play.

These sounds can be early warning as to what might be down the path.

WoW...the sound thing sounds cool...wish you could find the show?
The AR would not have been my 1st choice...in bear country, was just wondering between the 4, what would be the best when using it for other purposes out in the field?
Could the .458 socom get it done for defense or is it still too underpowered...and would the lighter recoil of 6.8 make for easier CNS shots?

[jmnielsen]

I think that if you are carrying a large sidearm, that I would go with the 6.8. Larger and more powerful than the 5.56 but not as huge as the .458 so you can still make a farther shot if you need to.

[Failure2Stop]

From what I know from bear hunters and those that work with a high possibility of encountering bears (guides and such), deep penetration is essential. Nothing in the 5.56 genre is really suitable to stop a determined bear without CNS hits. Optimal performance in humans is significantly different than optimal performance in bear-sized threats. They prefer to step up in levels of magnitude to 45-70 and better, and the "why" makes sense to me.

[DDM4LV1]

From what I know from bear hunters and those that work with a high possibility of encountering bears (guides and such), deep penetration is essential. Nothing in the 5.56 genre is really suitable to stop a determined bear without CNS hits. Optimal performance in humans is significantly different than optimal performance in bear-sized threats. They prefer to step up in levels of magnitude to 45-70 and better, and the "why" makes sense to me.

Well, this all sounds reasonable, perhaps I must just re-think going out alone, period, in brown bear country...and if I really want to or have need to take out one of my AR's...best to have that 2nd or 3rd person packing the 45-70 or .375 H&H.
Although, and I could be dead wrong
(pun intended)...unless one is EXTREMELY experienced guiding/hunting grizzly, and has defended before, or has ice water running in veins...that ONE only "well placed" shot that you may only get...with a bolt gun or even lever, may be off the mark with no quick 2nd shot, then you're toast.

To be that accurate & cool under a "charge" from 30-10 yds.,...well don't know if I could place it? Lots of variables...as I said, I could be wrong but I would feel better with a semi-auto, being able to squeeze the trigger as fast as I could and with the best aim under the circumstances, hope I score both some mechanical immobilizing & CNS and NOT depending on one magical shot.
some guys may be that good & cool when faced with 800 lbs. of muscle, claw & fang charging in like a locomotive at 35mph, not sure that is me...no matter how many rounds I put downrange a year.
So I have this Benelli 12g. semi-auto SG, 7+1 shots, fast, reliable...stuffed with Brenneke Black Magic slugs...big holes, real fast, bones crunching organs exploding, point & shoot, point blank range, why not?

Then again...I read this post in another thread by member "Denali";

"I was born, and have lived most of my 52 years in Alaska, these bear bullet threads are just to ridiculous to be taken seriously. We have a word for the type of person, who is always looking for the magic bullet with which to kill the death ninja bears that are coming under cover of darkness for them, we refer to them as "cheechakos!"

You don't need a study of terminal ballistics for charging bear, you are not going to be shooting a charging bear while fishing, hiking, or wrapped up in your sleeping bag, if you are being charged by an Alaskan brown/grizzly, you are either going to be thanking God it was a false charge(99,999%), or you are going to get mauled, and as a consequence your bullet selection will be largely meaningless, because you will be(if physically able) shooting at contact distance.......You want some sage advice? Invest in bear spray, use common sense in bear country, and stay out of the way of the charging moose..."

...THAT part in bold text may have hit-it-on-the-head, end of story, big trouble unless the charge is 50-75 yds. out or more, giving some time to shoot well?
Also, read some advice from Randy Garrett of Garrett Cartridge Co.,
...from a guy that has hunted big game ALL over the world, "is NOT going to wait & see if the "charge" is a bluff...wait until what, bear is too close now to shoot without a mauling still...NO, he said they get SHOT, the heck with "what if" 99.9% bluffs, as Donnie Brasco said, "fagget a 'bout it"...my life & family more important than any wildlife!

[J-Dub]

If it had to be an AR, I'd go 50 Beowulf.

A lot of people carry 12ga's loaded with slugs. 375 H&H, 45/70, 375win, 338win/fed, 458win, ect all would work too.

Personally I'd go bigger than smaller, anytime I could be on the menu.

Maybe a 500 S&W Mag lever gun.

[DDM4LV1]

If it had to be an AR, I'd go 50 Beowulf.

A lot of people carry 12ga's loaded with slugs. 375 H&H, 45/70, 375win, 338win/fed, 458win, ect all would work too.

Personally I'd go bigger than smaller, anytime I could be on the menu.

Maybe a 500 S&W Mag lever gun.

I agree, good advice, except maybe for the S&W .500 in a lever...45-70 far more potent round...my .500 S&W revolver is my sidearm in the woods, and last ditch effort before I get ate, it is just a handgun round, most potent, but alas no match for rifle rounds of close or equal diameter & frontal profile, me thinks.

[J-Dub]

Hmmm maybe from an 8" barrel.

You're going to gain a lot of velocity out of a rifle length barrel. I would be willing to bet a 500 s&w mag 400gr load out of a rifle would out do a 45/70. Plus bigger holes always win.

Look up the 50 Beowulf ballistics, its about the same case size as the 500.

[FlyingHunter]

Hornady Ballistics Chart:

Standard .338 Win Mag @ 100yds : Energy = 3313 ft/lbs and the SuperPerformance is a whoop ass Energy = 3798 ft/lbs

CorBon website, 458 SOCOM @ 100yds : Energy = 2023ft/lbs

While the 458 is indeed powerful, it's not even close to true Big Game Ballistics. Certainly, there are those will argue that a .22lr will kill a grizzly, my experience in Alaska shows that the .338 Win Mag or .300 Win Mag is the smart entry threshold for many people. As AKDoug stated, many guides use the venerable .375 H&H and above.

Insofar as a pistol, my first trip to AK the bear guide looked at my .44mag and said something like: "only shoot 5 of the 6 rounds at the bear, then save the last for yourself, the bear will be really pissed at that point.

By my 3rd trip, I took my good old G19 with a .22lr conversion for camp meat. But while in the bush, I never ever went anywhere without my .338 in hand e.g. washing dishes, etc...

Now if we're talking black bear, well, that's truly a different beast and I think AR calibers 6.8spc and up will close that deal.

Placement of the bullet, as always, is vital. Good Luck.

[AKDoug]

Well, this all sounds reasonable, perhaps I must just re-think going out alone, period, in brown bear country...and if I really want to or have need to take out one of my AR's...best to have that 2nd or 3rd person packing the 45-70 or .375 H&H.
Although, and I could be dead wrong
(pun intended)...unless one is EXTREMELY experienced guiding/hunting grizzly, and has defended before, or has ice water running in veins...that ONE only "well placed" shot that you may only get...with a bolt gun or even lever, may be off the mark with no quick 2nd shot, then you're toast.

To be that accurate & cool under a "charge" from 30-10 yds.,...well don't know if I could place it? Lots of variables...as I said, I could be wrong but I would feel better with a semi-auto, being able to squeeze the trigger as fast as I could and with the best aim under the circumstances, hope I score both some mechanical immobilizing & CNS and NOT depending on one magical shot.
some guys may be that good & cool when faced with 800 lbs. of muscle, claw & fang charging in like a locomotive at 35mph, not sure that is me...no matter how many rounds I put downrange a year.
So I have this Benelli 12g. semi-auto SG, 7+1 shots, fast, reliable...stuffed with Brenneke Black Magic slugs...big holes, real fast, bones crunching organs exploding, point & shoot, point blank range, why not?

Then again...I read this post in another thread by member "Denali";

"I was born, and have lived most of my 52 years in Alaska, these bear bullet threads are just to ridiculous to be taken seriously. We have a word for the type of person, who is always looking for the magic bullet with which to kill the death ninja bears that are coming under cover of darkness for them, we refer to them as "cheechakos!"

You don't need a study of terminal ballistics for charging bear, you are not going to be shooting a charging bear while fishing, hiking, or wrapped up in your sleeping bag, if you are being charged by an Alaskan brown/grizzly, you are either going to be thanking God it was a false charge(99,999%), or you are going to get mauled, and as a consequence your bullet selection will be largely meaningless, because you will be(if physically able) shooting at contact distance.......You want some sage advice? Invest in bear spray, use common sense in bear country, and stay out of the way of the charging moose..."

...THAT part in bold text may have hit-it-on-the-head, end of story, big trouble unless the charge is 50-75 yds. out or more, giving some time to shoot well?
Also, read some advice from Randy Garrett of Garrett Cartridge Co.,
...from a guy that has hunted big game ALL over the world, "is NOT going to wait & see if the "charge" is a bluff...wait until what, bear is too close now to shoot without a mauling still...NO, he said they get SHOT, the heck with "what if" 99.9% bluffs, as Donnie Brasco said, "fagget a 'bout it"...my life & family more important than any wildlife!

Denali can have his opinion, I can have mine. I've seen video of a charging bear getting smoked by a lucky guy at 10 feet with a .338 Win Mag. It was dead right there. They were videoing a final stalk on a moose when the bear burst from the brush.

One of my best friends killed a charging sow brown bear with a single shot from a .340 WBY... the entrance wound was through the top of her head and exited the mid line of the bear about 1/2 way back of the rib cage. The bear died and knocked him over while skidding to a stop.

People have beaten bears to the punch, but you'd better be throwing a big punch.

[murphman]

WoW...the sound thing sounds cool...wish you could find the show?
The AR would not have been my 1st choice...in bear country, was just wondering between the 4, what would be the best when using it for other purposes out in the field?
Could the .458 socom get it done for defense or is it still too underpowered...and would the lighter recoil of 6.8 make for easier CNS shots?

I will see if I cant dig something up for you.