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Thread: SBR as evidence question

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by decodeddiesel View Post
    Very true, however one can't help but think of the documented incidents when someone used an NFA firearm for self-defense, such as in the case of Gary Fadden and Harry Beckwith. Every time seemed to result in a lengthy court battle where in every case the defendant was absolved of all wrong doing, yet they ALL stated basically stated it would have been a lot less painful if they had used a run of the mill shotgun or pistol instead. Allbeit they both used machine guns, however I am sure a SBR like a Krink or a Mk18 would probably look equally as evil to an uninformed jury. Just some food for thought, but personally as a civilian I think I would rather reach for my non-NFA weapon given the opportunity first rather than face a long unnecessary court battle.

    http://www.afn.org/~guns/ayoob.html

    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...112685749/pg_1
    Something along this line... a few folks have brought this up and I talked with a couple of liawyers about it -- there is a mandatory sentencing enhancement for a criminal conviction involving an NFA weapon. So... if something goes sideways and it is not a legal use of force... well, like the liawyers say "I wouldn't want to be the test case".
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by K.L. Davis View Post
    Something along this line... a few folks have brought this up and I talked with a couple of liawyers about it -- there is a mandatory sentencing enhancement for a criminal conviction involving an NFA weapon. So... if something goes sideways and it is not a legal use of force... well, like the liawyers say "I wouldn't want to be the test case".
    I remember that case now, the guy with the AC556, but didn't remember the details.

    Certainly something to consider.

    Is a semi SBR something that is going to be more closely scrutinized than a 16" AR thou? That's the part I'm wondering about, sentencing enhancements aside?

    Personally I don't plan on getting involved in a bad shoot, but there is allways Murphy to contend with.

    Our new "Castle Doctrine" statute:

    6-2-602. Use of force in self defense.
    15
    16 (a) A person is presumed to have held a reasonable
    17 fear of imminent peril of death or serious bodily injury to
    18 himself or another when using defensive force that is
    19 intended or likely to cause death or serious bodily injury
    20 to another if:
    21
    22 (i) The person against whom the defensive force
    23 was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcefully
    24 entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly entered, an

    1 occupied structure, or if that person had removed or was
    2 attempting to remove another against his will from the
    3 occupied structure; and
    4
    5 (ii) The person who uses defensive force knew or
    6 had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry
    7 or unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred.
    If you stipulate above, its hard to imagine a 'bad shoot' inside one's home here.
    "So have your buddy get a box of stray cats and try to get a good sight picture while he is throwing the cats at you... naked." - KLD

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  3. #33
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    THAT is a castle doctrine? I thought severe castle doctrines involved the entire property and not just the structure.

  4. #34
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    Having been involved in Deadly Physical Force situations and investigations, as well as having testified in court on a regular basis, I can say that the average citizen would be unwise to use a NFA weapon to defend yourself with.

    If you are a LEO and are using it as an authorized duty weapon then you are good to go and can justify to the jury why that weapon was needed. A private citizen trying to explain to a jury of their "peers" about why they shot poor little John with a 10.5" 5.56mm SBR is going to be screwed.

    You would be much better served using a 16" gun. All of that being said...you would be even better served to utilize a handgun or shotgun.

    People can say whatever they want about "a good shooting being a good shooting", but take it from someone who has been on both sides....it does not always turn out that way.

    Especially if you get a detective that is anti-gun. The first appearance during an investigation is a large portion of how the arriving investigator will work the case. If he sees a man who just shot someone with a weapon he himself has never fired, and only knows that his SWAT team uses something similar....you are up the creek without a paddle.

    And this is coming from from someone who lives/works in one of the most accepting states regarding firearms ownership.

    CSI isn't real, but the uncomfortable bracelets are.....don't risk getting put in them over a few inches of barrel. That is stupid. The jury of your "peers" is not truly your equal....and that is who decides whether you walk home or go out the back entrance to the jail. This group of "peers" is trained by watching CSI, The Unit, and Law & Order.

  5. #35
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    I'm actually the one who said "a good shooting is a good shooting" but you must have stopped reading after that. I continued to say that's not to suggest that you can't still catch all hell.

    Don't quote me and NOT quote me at the same time please.

    Thanks.

  6. #36
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    Sorry to let you down, but that comment was not directed at you. Rather the large majority of individuals that seem to believe that same concept.

    I would hate to see someone go to prison over their weapon selection.

  7. #37
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    Ben, thanks for the insight.

    If he sees a man who just shot someone with a weapon he himself has never fired, and only knows that his SWAT team uses something similar
    Wouldn't that be equally true for a 16" gun thou?
    "So have your buddy get a box of stray cats and try to get a good sight picture while he is throwing the cats at you... naked." - KLD

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  8. #38
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    JLM:

    I think it is true of any AR/AK/HK/ETC system you use. The private citizen is much better served by using a handgun or shotgun. If you are going to choose a carbine though, having it all "dressed up" with optics, rails, etc is a bad idea. Having a SBR is an even worse idea.

    While I agree that it is the best system one could choose, you are opening a door that doesn't need to be opened.

    A good 18" 870 with a SF Forend will do everything you need, and it is much more socially acceptable.

  9. #39
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    Okay, given the known overpenetration risks articulated by SSA Boone, what would you recommend for 12ga ammo, in an apartment complex?

    That was my whole thought process in going to the carbine in the first place, not slinging lead thru the walls at potential innocent bystanders. Am I overthinking this?

    Not trying to be flippant here, but a Remington 700 in 30-06 might be a lot more 'socially acceptable' until you launch one thru the wall and it kills granny next door.

    Some politically motivated DA or investigator might look at something like a 30-06 (the standard issue deer hunting rifle in my AO) and be taken aback and your use of a 'high powered rifle'.

    Thoughts?
    "So have your buddy get a box of stray cats and try to get a good sight picture while he is throwing the cats at you... naked." - KLD

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  10. #40
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    I think using any type of rifle is a bad idea. It has a negative appearance and rifle wounds are extremely bloody by nature. That adds to the initial first impression by the investigator, or worse the city/county attorney looking at the pics and wanting to make a name for himself.

    The type of round used will always be an issue inside an apt unfortunately, but the same can be said inside a home where multiple people reside.

    I would take a look at the Federal Low Recoil OO Buck LE offering. It is an excellent round.

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