Wolf ammo and carbine classes.....

[markm]

Many instructors advise against using Wolf in their classes for the simple reason that it tends to cause more malfunctions than any other ammo. One shooter on the line having to clear malfunctions all day really slow the class down.

I certainly won't shoot the stuff. But the worst wolf issue I've seen is a stuck case. We tapped it out and moved on. If a shooter knows his gun will run it...

[C4IGrant]

Because 5.56 is no longer 10 cents a round!

I wouldn't go to bed with wolf, but I'll shoot it now simply because ammo is ridiculously expensive.....so I can either I shoot less with better ammo or I shoot more with borderline ammo.

I look at it two ways. For general blasting Wolf is fine I think. The issue that I have for using it in a training class is that you have spent a lot of money and time to get ready for a carbine school. You are there to learn something and having a gun that does not operate properly REALLY detracts from your ability to learn. I see this all the time. Once a guy starts to get a steady stream of malfunctions, his mind is shot as he is only thinking about having to clear a malfunction or transition to his pistol (instead of what the instructor is saying). You have basically wasted your time and are most likely slowing the class up and becoming “that guy.”

The other issue I have is that you spent a lot of money on your AR. Why put the worst, most inaccurate ammo through it? I personally would prefer to pull the trigger less with better ammo, than more with crappy ammo.
The analogy that I best like is that you bought a Ferrari and put general tires in it and the cheapest gas you could find. This does not make any sense either.



C4

[C4IGrant]

I certainly won't shoot the stuff. But the worst wolf issue I've seen is a stuck case. We tapped it out and moved on. If a shooter knows his gun will run it...

I have personally seen it ruin a guys entire training weekend. Most people that tell me that their gun "runs just fine with it" have generally never pushed their weapon like they would in a carbine school.

You are there to hear what the instructor has to say and run drills, not screw with clearing stuck cases or malfunctions.


C4

[C4IGrant]

I just checked on Wolf prices. I am seeing it run in the $230-$250 range. For a little bit more money, you can run PRVI. To me, saving $50-$70 bucks just is not worth it.


C4

[markm]

Dig it! But in this guy's case, it's a 1 day class with only 500 rounds.

He could bring good ammo, and switch over if the wolf became problematic.

[Derek_Connor]

generally never pushed their weapon like they would in a carbine school.

and that is the rub....most beginner shooters do not know the round count where their rifles where begin

I shot a round count last weekend that caused my lower to become to f*ing dirty, it locked up the safety...and that was with PRVI Partizan..

I could only imagine how much sooner my rifle would have locked up if i was shooting wolf

[C4IGrant]

Dig it! But in this guy's case, it's a 1 day class with only 500 rounds.

He could bring good ammo, and switch over if the wolf became problematic.

He could and should. In most cases though, carbine schools are 2-3 days in length.


C4

[RogerinTPA]

Many instructors advise against using Wolf in their classes for the simple reason that it tends to cause more malfunctions than any other ammo. One shooter on the line having to clear malfunctions all day really slow the class down.


C4

Couldn't it be the use of substandard weapon as opposed to a perceived substandard ammo? Maybe some instructors can chime in on this, but doesn't most malfunctions occur due to using weapons at the far right of "the Chart", improper maintenance and bad mags??? If this is the case, in order to keep up with the class, shouldn't the instructors ban every weapon right of the center of the chart? I've read on this forum that entire SWAT teams weapons have gone down in courses due to using Bushmasters. Have they banned Bushies or other substandard weapons? Of course not. They want to make money, so why ban a person's ammo if he feels comfortable using it? If you did spend a lot of money on your weapon, then your's is obviously to the left of "the Chart" and should have no problem. I don't with any ammo I've used in my Colt 6920.

I thought only instructors that run ranges with metal targets prohibited steel tipped ammo, causing damage to the target. Wolf being rejected due to brass coated steel bullets, no?

[-gary]

I thought only instructors that run ranges with metal targets prohibited steel tipped ammo, causing damage to the target. Wolf being rejected due to brass coated steel bullets, no?

Wolf is lacquer coated, steel cased. The projectile is standard FMJ or SP.

[C4IGrant]

Couldn't it be the use of substandard weapon as opposed to a perceived substandard ammo? Maybe some instructors can chime in on this, but doesn't most malfunctions occur due to using weapons at the far right of "the Chart", improper maintenance and bad mags??? If this is the case, in order to keep up with the class, shouldn't the instructors ban every weapon right of the center of the chart? Of course not, so why ban a person's ammo if he feels comfortable using it? If you did spend a lot of money on your weapon, then your's is obviously to the left of "the Chart" and should have no problem. I don't with any ammo using my Colt 6920.

I thought only instructors that run ranges with metal targets prohibited steel tipped ammo, causing damage to the target. Wolf being rejected due to brass coated steel bullets, no?

It is actually a little of everything IMHO. I have seen all kinds of guns fail. In particular, S&W M&P's do NOT like wolf at all.

About 40% off all AR malfunctions are most likely caused by a bad mag. Another 40% of the malfunctions are cause by stupid user tricks (not cleaning or lubing and not doing PM's). The last 20% is generally caused by poor ammo IMHO.

So to answer your question, crappy ammo in a quality gun can and will cause malfunctions.

Wolf does not have a steel core. Instructors reject the ammo because it generally creates delays in their training schedules.


C4