why no love for the XCR-M?

[Littlelebowski]

Best advice I can give on the XCR is that if you are even remotely interested in one stay away from dealing with the company directly and only go thru their main dealer Kermit Zahm. Let him do all the legwork for you, he gets dibs on most stuff anyway.

That's exactly what the people on that forum say. I looked around and found Alex astro turfing Sniper's Hide saying that amongst other things that 5.45 kits are shipping "now" and I believe he said that in '10 or '11. Now on XCRforum.com, people are still trying to get their 5.45 kits. So, pass for me. I understand that XCRforum might be full of malcontents but I'm seeing a pattern here.....

[Littlelebowski]

I'm looking for the source I remember, I'll edit my post to reflect the current lack of substantiation, but the source was credible.

Understood as I have sources that I can't publicly cite either (not that I'm high speed, low drag!).

[RHINOWSO]

Understood as I have sources that I can't publicly cite either (not that I'm high speed, low drag!).

Well, I can't find the public source but the MK20 is well beyond the development stage and in use.

I'll update if I can find a public source that I can quote.

Regardless, I'll take an SR-25, SCAR-H of any variety (civie, MK17, or MK20) or Larue OBR well before an XCR...

[ESK]

As requested by JoshNC and CageMonkey
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread...33#post1620633

In regards to the HAC7, How about some photos, including field stripped?

[Cagemonkey]

As requested by JoshNC and CageMonkey
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread...33#post1620633

Thanks. That was awesome.

[KTR03]

these are all primarily operator failures. the gun requires regular maintenance just like the AR needs lube. dont give it what it needs and it'll fail just like any other machine.

Instructors need to learn this system. the short course is "blue locktite all bolts/screws and torque correctly. If it fails... turn the gas up and check lube" Thats pretty much all there is different to the XCR.

as for the 762x39... it was a magazine issue really. I wouldnt buy one myself, and for the price of a conversion I can buy a whole AK with mags that work.
I asked Alex personally once why he didnt make the 762x39 just use the AK mags that actually worked, his response was that they didnt have a bolt hold open. That still baffles me.

Respectfully, its a maintenance issue because of poor design. Screws back out. Screws on critical components is just poor design. Locktite-ing stuff onto the gun is a mitigation, not a solution. So you have a rifle that works well, is an interesting design but a flawed implementation. When you combine its tendency to energetically disassemble itself with the complete inability to get parts in a reasonable amount of time, it become a maintenance/logistic night mare.

Contrary to what Robinson says about XCR "covering the earth" and being a revolutionary rifle, its basically a FAL/AK/AR munged together. Nothing wrong with that, but the implementation is poor, the company is even worse, and the owner takes the cake.

[Jack-O]

Respectfully, its a maintenance issue because of poor design. Screws back out. Screws on critical components is just poor design. Locktite-ing stuff onto the gun is a mitigation, not a solution. So you have a rifle that works well, is an interesting design but a flawed implementation. When you combine its tendency to energetically disassemble itself with the complete inability to get parts in a reasonable amount of time, it become a maintenance/logistic night mare.

Contrary to what Robinson says about XCR "covering the earth" and being a revolutionary rifle, its basically a FAL/AK/AR munged together. Nothing wrong with that, but the implementation is poor,
the company is even worse, and the owner takes the cake.

Well, we may have to agree to disagree on this, but I think your assertion that 3-4 screws needing locktite or proper torquing it a design flaw shows a lack of understanding of the requirements of modular designs. the fact that any part can be taken off any other rifle and used safely without adjustment or special guages and the fact that the entire weapon can be taken apart with a $10 folding hex wrench set provides significant advantage to the user. to my knowledge no other rifle or firearm in history could do that.

Understanding a designs needs are part of learning the system. every rifle need something different. I'd certainly never lube my AR like I do my AK.. it just wouldn't run.

Honestly if the biggest gripe one can come up with is the dislike of the recommendation that one locktites 3-4 screws... Then discussing anything further about it is a waste of time.

In all honesty, discussions about hardware as if they were critically important is really not a significant issue in my world. I'd rather discuss the software issues of the modern gunowner... LOTS more wrong there.

[KTR03]

Well, we may have to agree to disagree on this, but I think your assertion that 3-4 screws needing locktite or proper torquing it a design flaw shows a lack of understanding of the requirements of modular designs. the fact that any part can be taken off any other rifle and used safely without adjustment or special guages and the fact that the entire weapon can be taken apart with a $10 folding hex wrench set provides significant advantage to the user. to my knowledge no other rifle or firearm in history could do that.

Understanding a designs needs are part of learning the system. every rifle need something different. I'd certainly never lube my AR like I do my AK.. it just wouldn't run.

Honestly if the biggest gripe one can come up with is the dislike of the recommendation that one locktites 3-4 screws... Then discussing anything further about it is a waste of time.

In all honesty, discussions about hardware as if they were critically important is really not a significant issue in my world. I'd rather discuss the software issues of the modern gunowner... LOTS more wrong there.

Love modular systems. I have two Augs. 3 barrels, and 3 stocks. I never have to lock tite something down to keep it from backing out. I'd also suggest that once you have locktited something, its really not that modular. Hardware is critically important when your gas block goes down range or the barrel shoots loose. Its also critically important when you can't get replacement parts.

As you say, we'll have to agree to disagree. Love your last sentence. Boy is that the truth.

[Jack-O]

I've had the XCR since 2005, and have never launched a gas block down range or shot a barrel off. Nor have I seen it. I heard of ONE guy who didnt put his gas dial in all the way and shot it off, but never even HEARD of the barrel shooting off. I dont think it's actually possible. the level of operator malfunction for either is VERY VERY high for that to happen. it really is on the order of gross negligence. and by "gross" I mean "deliberate and or willfully ignorant" of the operating instructions.

It's on the order of "shoving your muzzle into the mud and using the buttstock as a seat" negligent.

you know, I really dont care what an individual wants to shoot. it doesnt matter. I do feel strongly that any person hanging out a shingle as an "instructor" needs to have a REALLY good handle on the different hardware that students show up with to their classes. It shows poorly on an instructor when the best response to a malfunction is "it's a poor design" or "well the AR isnt very reliable" or "those AK's cant shoot past 200 yards". Especially when operators all over have proven the viability and reliability of the system. When I hear that kind of buck passing from an instructor it clearly indicates an amateur or a person who doesnt care enough about their craft to learn new things or keep up with the times. I stopped taking classes from those types a long time ago.

[BAC]

you know, I really dont care what an individual wants to shoot. it doesnt matter. I do feel strongly that any person hanging out a shingle as an "instructor" needs to have a REALLY good handle on the different hardware that students show up with to their classes. It shows poorly on an instructor when the best response to a malfunction is "it's a poor design" or "well the AR isnt very reliable" or "those AK's cant shoot past 200 yards". Especially when operators all over have proven the viability and reliability of the system. When I hear that kind of buck passing from an instructor it clearly indicates an amateur or a person who doesnt care enough about their craft to learn new things or keep up with the times. I stopped taking classes from those types a long time ago.

What types of instructors do you take classes from? Vickers? Pannone? Swan? Rogers? I'm sure one or more of the bigger guys in the training world has an opinion on the XCR as it pertains to performance in carbine courses.