XS Big Dot Sights?

[Jim D]

I've had great success with Big Dots.

It took me maybe 200 rounds to really get them figured out.

I can shoot groups just as tight with them at close range....and I can hit the target just as well at long range. I've shot them side by side with a 3 dot night sight on the same gun (G19)...and I don't find it 1 bit easier to use the 3 dots, for any purpose.

A few of us were shooting 12x12 steel plates the other week at 50 yards. 1 of us had Trijicons on a G17, and I had Big Dots on my 19. We each tried each others pistols. I was hitting just about the same with both guns, but found the Bid Dots "easier" to use.

I haven't been able to track the front sight and see it lift and return through recoil, yet. What I find is that it's much easier for me to use Big Dots while moving, than it is 3 dot "notch and post" sights.

I'll really know what I think of them in fall, after I get to train with LAV.

I think I can see how they're not the choice for "experts" who can see the sight travel through its recoil cycle, and have 10k+ rounds of muscle memory helping them find their front sight....but for use on a defensive pistol, especially for folks who don't train hard and often with their gun...I think they're worlds better than a notch and post.

[jmart]

I've had great success with Big Dots.

It took me maybe 200 rounds to really get them figured out.

I can shoot groups just as tight with them at close range....and I can hit the target just as well at long range. I've shot them side by side with a 3 dot night sight on the same gun (G19)...and I don't find it 1 bit easier to use the 3 dots, for any purpose.

A few of us were shooting 12x12 steel plates the other week at 50 yards. 1 of us had Trijicons on a G17, and I had Big Dots on my 19. We each tried each others pistols. I was hitting just about the same with both guns, but found the Bid Dots "easier" to use.

I haven't been able to track the front sight and see it lift and return through recoil, yet. What I find is that it's much easier for me to use Big Dots while moving, than it is 3 dot "notch and post" sights.

I'll really know what I think of them in fall, after I get to train with LAV.

I think I can see how they're not the choice for "experts" who can see the sight travel through its recoil cycle, and have 10k+ rounds of muscle memory helping them find their front sight....but for use on a defensive pistol, especially for folks who don't train hard and often with their gun...I think they're worlds better than a notch and post.

Good feedback and analysis. Thanks.

[Gutshot John]

I think I can see how they're not the choice for "experts" who can see the sight travel through its recoil cycle, and have 10k+ rounds of muscle memory helping them find their front sight....but for use on a defensive pistol, especially for folks who don't train hard and often with their gun...I think they're worlds better than a notch and post.

So what you're saying is that beginners or those with old/bad eyes find them easier, but that those with more experience don't like them/find them overrated. I think that's all that's been said. If your eyes can't outperform the sights, than you're fine. As you get better you will notice their limitations.

10k rounds is not a lot of shooting if you consider yourself a devotee but if it takes you that long (short of physical limitations) to master your sights, than you've got bigger problems.

As for what's training hard/often...due to my schedule I don't get to go to the range near as much as I would like and it's certainly adversely impacting my shooting, but while range time is important, you don't need it to practice.

If you can't go to the range, I'd recommend SAFE dry-fire in your home/backyard. Find the smallest aim point you have on a wall (preferably close to a mirror where you can watch your technique) and do a 50-100 trigger pulls a day. Check to see how your sights line-up/move as you pull the trigger. You'll be able to catch yourself slapping the trigger. It develops all the muscle memory you want...and its free.

You'd be amazed at how well dry-fire works. If I do it religiously, I find that when I do shoot my skills haven't degraded. If I haven't done it, then I have problems.

[Erick Gelhaus]

Find the smallest aim point you have on a wall (preferably close to a mirror where you can watch your technique) and do a 50-100 trigger pulls a day.

John-
I understand why you'd suggest the use of the mirror ... however ... the problem with even having a mirror in play is the tendency to keep looking at how you look, rather than keeping the focus on the trigger manipulation and sight alignment / picture.

[Jim D]

So what you're saying is that beginners or those with old/bad eyes find them easier, but that those with more experience don't like them/find them overrated. I think that's all that's been said. If your eyes can't outperform the sights, than you're fine. As you get better you will notice their limitations.

10k rounds is not a lot of shooting if you consider yourself a devotee but if it takes you that long (short of physical limitations) to master your sights, than you've got bigger problems.

What I'm saying is that if you've got a very consistent draw and extension, that you can probably look at a target, close your eyes and draw, and hit it.....just from muscle memory. When you've got your presentation that mastered, you know where your sights are going to be, and having the big "LOOK HERE, STUPID!" front sight, isn't gonna do much for you.

As for what's training hard/often...due to my schedule I don't get to go to the range near as much as I would like and it's certainly adversely impacting my shooting, but while range time is important, you don't need it to practice.

If you can't go to the range, I'd recommend SAFE dry-fire in your home/backyard. Find the smallest aim point you have on a wall (preferably close to a mirror where you can watch your technique) and do a 50-100 trigger pulls a day. Check to see how your sights line-up/move as you pull the trigger. You'll be able to catch yourself slapping the trigger. It develops all the muscle memory you want...and its free.

You'd be amazed at how well dry-fire works. If I do it religiously, I find that when I do shoot my skills haven't degraded. If I haven't done it, then I have problems.

Most people who carry a gun don't do this, IMO.
Yes, dry fire helps...but only so much. I dry fire practice a good bit, myself. I also shoot almost every day. I still haven't been able to keep my eyes on the front sight as the slide cycles...after the shot breaks, I see it once it stops moving.

Were my eyes able to track it through recoil, maybe I'd be able to use a jet black notch and post sight....ala Sevigny....with a greater degree of speed and precision than Big Dots.

I think they're a great sight that the majority of people could benefit from using...the experts are gonna change their sights anyway...so why not start offering these sights as a stock option on defensive pistols?

[Gutshot John]

What I'm saying is that if you've got a very consistent draw and extension, that you can probably look at a target, close your eyes and draw, and hit it.....just from muscle memory. When you've got your presentation that mastered, you know where your sights are going to be, and having the big "LOOK HERE, STUPID!" front sight, isn't gonna do much for you.



Most people who carry a gun don't do this, IMO.
Yes, dry fire helps...but only so much. I dry fire practice a good bit, myself. I also shoot almost every day. I still haven't been able to keep my eyes on the front sight as the slide cycles...after the shot breaks, I see it once it stops moving.

Were my eyes able to track it through recoil, maybe I'd be able to use a jet black notch and post sight....ala Sevigny....with a greater degree of speed and precision than Big Dots.

I think they're a great sight that the majority of people could benefit from using...the experts are gonna change their sights anyway...so why not start offering these sights as a stock option on defensive pistols?

Every serious shooter I know dry-fires religiously. It's awfully good for breaking bad habits and deconditioning flinching before the bang. It's especially vital if you can't get to the range.

I don't know what to tell you. Other than you're an exception to the rule.

[Jim D]

Every serious shooter I know dry-fires religiously. It's awfully good for breaking bad habits and deconditioning flinching before the bang. It's especially vital if you can't get to the range.

I don't know what to tell you. Other than you're an exception to the rule.

I agree with you about dry firing helping to break some bad habits. What I'm referring to is the speed at which shooters are able to find their front sight on the target.

This is independent of how good of a trigger pull they have. I'm talking about their ability to find and keep their front sight on target on the first shot till the last...moving shooter, moving target, rapid fire strings, etc.

If your grip/ stance/ presentation is so hard wired into your brain that you always know exactly where your front sight is, and is going to be...then Big Dot's probably aren't going to knock your socks off. If you're at this point, you could probably "point shoot"/"metal and meat index" your way though an IDPA course, and still do well.

But for target to target transitions, moving targets, moving shooter...I've handed my gun (with Big Dots) to some pretty good shooters, who don't have any problems with accuracy...and they've been pretty impressed.

The "Masters" and "Grand Masters" probably have enough muscle memory built up that they could shoot without sights, and still get 90% A-Zone hits...so it makes sense for them to use something which just gives them the ability to line up the precision shots.

But I think for people who find themselves trying to find their front sight (be it from not managing recoil well, poor eyesight, a lack of practice, heavy movement, etc) that these sights have a lot to offer.

As always, YMMV.

[CarlosDJackal]

My 2 pennies: I can see this sight's usefulness for those who may have vision issues. But when I tried them on my Glock 30, I had a heck of a time making hits on an FBI "Q" target at 25-yards (as required by our 50-round qualification course). I found that the front dot covered up the widest part of the "Q".

Plus, the front tritium on mine died at around the 20-round mark so I sent it back (to their credit, I did not get any kind of fuss from the makers about this). Someone pointed out that I could make those 25-yard shots by using the sights differently. But I feel that it is ridiculous for me to change how I line up my sights at distance because of the sight's short-comings.

I currently use TFOs on my duty (Glock 35), off-duty (Glock23), and BUG (Glock 26) guns and so far I like them. YMMV.

[ToddG]

What I'm saying is that if you've got a very consistent draw and extension, that you can probably look at a target, close your eyes and draw, and hit it.....just from muscle memory. When you've got your presentation that mastered, you know where your sights are going to be, and having the big "LOOK HERE, STUPID!" front sight, isn't gonna do much for you.

... assuming you aren't moving ...
... and your target isn't moving ...
... and the acceptable hit "zone" is large enough ...
... and you're not forced into an awkward position/stance by cover or circumstance ...
... etc. ad infinitum

I'm not suggesting that most people look at their front sight under stress. But if one isn't looking at the front sight, who cares which front sight is there? It's the situations where a front sight is going to matter (more challenging low-percentage shots) that I can't afford to have a huge lollipop on my front sight.

Most people who carry a gun don't do this, IMO.
Yes, dry fire helps...but only so much. I dry fire practice a good bit, myself. I also shoot almost every day. I still haven't been able to keep my eyes on the front sight as the slide cycles...after the shot breaks, I see it once it stops moving.

You can't learn sight tracking through dry-fire.

The fact that you shoot every day doesn't mean you're improving or learning the skills you want. You don't say how long you've been working on it, but if you're shooting every day and have been for the past six months and you still aren't tracking your sights, something is more fundamentally wrong in your technique.

I think they're a great sight that the majority of people could benefit from using...the experts are gonna change their sights anyway...so why not start offering these sights as a stock option on defensive pistols?

Because the experience of most serious trainers is that the sights don't actually help students of any level. The only people who benefit from them are those whose vision has deteriorated to the point where a normal front sight isn't discernible.

[Alpha Sierra]

Because the experience of most serious trainers is that the sights don't actually help students of any level. The only people who benefit from them are those whose vision has deteriorated to the point where a normal front sight isn't discernible.

Some of us are smart enough and observant enough to be able to discern what helps us in our shooting without need for experienced trainers to constantly hold our hand. Some of us have even found out that Big Dots help us even if we can see traditional sights well enough. Imagine that.

Your statement is mildly condescending and not at all correct.