Concealment Draw Standards

[hwaya]

1: Your method/methods of carry.

Appendix carry with G-Code INCOG on deepest setting (with cant) and a t shirt over it

2: The timed standard you train to for a first shot freestyle from concealment for each method of carry.

For concealment, from what I've heard being thrown around is 2 sec, 1.5 sec for open holster. I try and go for 1.5 sec from concealment. My cold time is around 1.6 as I break the shot at full extension with a good sight picture to get a nice clean hit. Once I'm warmed up I break the shot once I see the sights probably around 75% extension, getting around 1.3 sec.

I am a lot faster with AIWB, probably because I practice it a lot more than 04:00. I have trouble breaking 1.5 carrying 04:00 with a t-shirt over it. I think I could break it with a open front jacket/button up but I rarely carry like that so I don't practice it.

3: The timed standard you train to for a first shot strong hand only from concealment.

Haven't timed this one yet, I will the next time I go out to the range

4: Your reasoning behind your standards.

Don't really have one besides what people are saying. I just try and go as fast as I can before my accuracy goes out the window

5: Any other thoughts regarding CCW standards.

Like others mentioned a lot more things are going to be going on if you do have to actually employ it. I would recommend taking Southnarc's ECQC class as you could try out your CCW draw in FoF scenarios.

[theblackknight]

Understood...

To what standard do you train and what carry method do you employ? Do you typically train to a 1 second standard using the same gear you carry in?

1 flat is my goal, right now cold from junk carry I'll get 1.3-1.5. I only shoot carry gear once a month if that now bc I'm trying to get used to a SLS/ALS crap that I hate but will have to use. I do keep the aiwb draw up with dryfire.

[YVK]

My speed standard is as fast as I can without blowing my balls off...

My current standard for two-handed is 2 shots under 2.5 seconds on 3x5 card at 7-8 yards. That generally translates into first under 2 and split under 0.5. I've done 2.12-2.18 a number of times, but I am interested in consistent results, not pick and choose prettiest numbers.
This is from an appendix rig. Conventional IWB adds about 0.2 sec, one hand 0.5 on draw, 0.3 on split.

[C4IGrant]

My speed standard is as fast as I can without blowing my balls off...

My current standard for two-handed is 2 shots under 2.5 seconds on 3x5 card at 7-8 yards. That generally translates into first under 2 and split under 0.5. I've done 2.12-2.18 a number of times, but I am interested in consistent results, not pick and choose prettiest numbers.
This is from an appendix rig. Conventional IWB adds about 0.2 sec, one hand 0.5 on draw, 0.3 on split.

LOL.

Strong hand only into IDPA @ 7 from 3 O'Clock RCS holster is .95-1 seconds. Two hand from same setup is 1.3-1.5 (typically).

Like you though, consistency (COLD) is what I am always after.



C4

[Ironman8]

Alot of great answers here that I agree with, so I'll just add to the data set.

I carry 4-4:30 IWB with a T-shirt over the gun as I would when walking down the street (TX summers suck ) and make sure I train this way as well. It's definitely one of the slower (standard) setups to draw from, but it just happens to be the best spot for me to conceal a gun. May try some AIWB here soon though.

I still shoot for sub 1.8 (cold) and am pretty consistently within 1.5 - 1.8 on a 3x5 card or 2" circle at 5-7 yds. Fastest so far has been 1.44. I still have alot of work to get where I want to be, though.

[warpedcamshaft]

Here is something I found recently:

If you notice, Ken's standards from 7 yards is 2 rounds in 2 seconds. These drills are intended to be fired from concealment... and this drill seems to validate what a lot of folks are saying. However, C zone hits are considered body hits, while most people in this thread so far are running drills on A-zones, 3x5 cards, or 8 inch circles.

Ken Hackathorn's 30 round Defense drill:

1. From 5 yards, allowing 1 ½ seconds, beginning at "low ready" one shot to head.
Repeat 3 times.

2. From 5 yards, allowing 2 seconds, beginning with gun holstered, one shot to head.
Repeat 3 times.

3. From 5 yards, allowing 2 seconds, beginning at "low ready," strong hand only, two shots to body.
Repeat 2 times.

4. From 7 yards, allowing 2 seconds, facing 90° to left of target, gun holstered, two shots to body.
One time only.

5. From 7 yards, allowing 2 seconds, facing 90° to right of target, gun holstered, two shots to body.
One time only.

6. From 7 yards, allowing 2 seconds, facing target, gun holstered, two shots to body.
One time only.

7. From 7 yards, allowing 4 seconds, while backing to 10-12 yards, three shots to body.
Repeat 2 times.

8. From 10 yards, allowing 3 seconds, beginning with gun on target and round in chamber, change
magazine and fire one shot to body.
Repeat 2 times.

9. From 10 yards, allowing 3 seconds, beginning with gun on target and slide locked back, change
magazine and fire one shot to body.
One time only.

10. From 15 yards, allowing 2 ½ seconds, draw and fire one shot to body.
Repeat 5 times.


Head shots only count if you hit the A zone of the "head" of the target. Body shots count if you hit the
A, B, or C zones of the "body" of the target.

[warpedcamshaft]

I should also mention that I checked the notes on my phone, and I had recorded Kyle Defoor's minimum standards from concealment before his threads were removed as:

2 seconds freestyle.

and

3 seconds strong hand only.

My assumption is he intends these standards to be fired into the upper half of an A-Zone on an IPSC target...

[warpedcamshaft]

Alot of great answers here that I agree with, so I'll just add to the data set.

I carry 4-4:30 IWB with a T-shirt over the gun as I would when walking down the street (TX summers suck ) and make sure I train this way as well. It's definitely one of the slower (standard) setups to draw from, but it just happens to be the best spot for me to conceal a gun. May try some AIWB here soon though.

I still shoot for sub 1.8 (cold) and am pretty consistently within 1.5 - 1.8 on a 3x5 card or 2" circle at 5-7 yds. Fastest so far has been 1.44. I still have alot of work to get where I want to be, though.

I utilize the same carry method (4:30ish), because I am in an environment where temperatures typically range from -40ish to 110ish degrees Fahrenheit, and I am often outside in these temperature ranges and I often vary between 1 and 6 layers of clothing.

I hold myself to a 2 second standard IPSC head zone regardless of what season it is, and find that 4:30 with a "Hackathorn Rip" technique covers all situations and clothing/glove variations for me.

PS... I miss living in TX... I was down there in January this year at CSAT, and was wearing a T-shirt most the day while Mr. Howe and the rest of the class were complaining about the cold.

[ST911]

Here is something I found recently:

Ken Hackathorn's 30 round Defense drill:

I shoot that pretty often. Ammo-efficient, and a great test of some core skills.

8. From 10 yards, allowing 3 seconds, beginning with gun on target and round in chamber, change
magazine and fire one shot to body.
Repeat 2 times.

9. From 10 yards, allowing 3 seconds, beginning with gun on target and slide locked back, change
magazine and fire one shot to body.
One time only.

The variation I shoot is a speed reload from slide lock, fire one round to the body, three seconds, 3x. Perhaps there's some dilution in repostings. Anyone know what's "official"?

[G_M]

Mike Pannone has a great test for CCW. It is called the 15-in-10 and we did it during his Covert Carry Class. Here is his youtube video explaining and demoing it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MeFZM6LwHE

The one thing he did differently in class was he added Expert, Sharpshooter and Marksman brackets. The main reason for that was so you would focus on incremental improvements rather than all or nothing pass/fail. As an added FYI, after his class 99% were pulling off 2-shots in under 2 seconds from true concealment. I think we had one person slightly over at 2.15. Most were in the 1.6-1.8s while we had some people smoking under 1.5seconds so the 2 shots in 2 seconds is totally doable.