ATF to close trust "loophole."

[WS6]

I'm kind of surprised the NFA gravy train has lasted this long.

Bullshit. I'm surprised that the American people have accepted NFA laws curbing their rights for so long. Wait. No I'm not. This is the country that "teaches to the test" and destroys the wealthy to feed the unproductive. I'm not shocked at all. Just pissed off that people view their rights as "a gravy train" or some such bullshit when hundreds of thousands throughout our Nation's history died to preserve said "gravy train". Not directed at you, 5POINT56, but at "the people" as a whole who somehow think that NFA trusts and tax stamps are some sort of "allowance" or "gift" or some such. They are a pox and a disease and shouldn't have to exist is what they are. "Shall not be infringed..."

So if they "close the loophole" will everyone that has a trust have to reapply as an individual?

I'm looking into a few suppressors this summer and I'd hate to have to go through the process twice. (I can get CLEO approval but prefer trust or LLC right now unless I'd potentially have to do it 2x). Total newb at NFA stuff so I'm curious.

Possession is 9/10ths of the law. Change what they will, I did the right thing and jumped through all of the un-Constitutional red tape obtaining my property, and I will not be robbed, so I really don't care what they have to say about existing NFA items. I am bothered that they want to take things even FURTHER in destroying the rights of We, The People, though.

I went tax-stamp to avoid this kind of thing as much as possible. I do not desire to break a law. That said, I can get 72 hour sign-offs from my CLEO, and have noone in my world that I will ever loan an NFA item to, so it's a pointless gesture to waste $3-500 to get a competent attorney to set up a trust (you get what you pay for, and I'm not going to use some freebie or $49.99 E-software to guard myself from the inside of a Federal prison, YMMV).

[5POINT56]

Though NFA ownership represents a tiny fraction of gun owners, it would stand to reason that if Obama can shut it down outside of Congresional involvement, he just might.

He couldn't get his gun control agenda out of the dem controlled Senate....let alone to the House floor for a vote. He has no problem with unilateral action by any means necessary, and if he can get a "win" against gun owners via the NFA loophole I see no reason why he wouldn't.

It very well could end up as a soft target and an easy win if it continues to get media attention.

[5POINT56]

Bullshit. I'm surprised that the American people have accepted NFA laws curbing their rights for so long. Wait. No I'm not. This is the country that "teaches to the test" and destroys the wealthy to feed the unproductive. I'm not shocked at all. Just pissed off that people view their rights as "a gravy train" or some such bullshit when hundreds of thousands throughout our Nation's history died to preserve said "gravy train". Not directed at you, 5POINT56, but at "the people" as a whole who somehow think that NFA trusts and tax stamps are some sort of "allowance" or "gift" or some such. They are a pox and a disease and shouldn't have to exist is what they are. "Shall not be infringed..."

.

Lets get something straight here. Your comments and history lesson are nothing new nor unique. We all get that. We all likely agree 100%, I know I do.

There is principle and then there is reality. While we may wave our flags from a position of principle, the government operates from a position of reality. Real laws, real restrictions against the Constitution, as evidenced by history. Over and over again....the slow erosion of our 2nd Amendment rights is reality. These laws do not roll back....with the exception of the 94 AWB sunset clause....which was a strategic error that the government will not make twice.

My reference to a gravy train is simply a statement that reflects a subject, NFA ownership, that represents a great opportunity for continued restrictions, a potentially soft political target, that has remained untouched by government and media due to it being largely unknown and unexplored by both. Once light begins to shine on a subject like that, bad things tend to happen.....or certainly could.

The government, by and large, doesn't give a shit about the 2nd Amendment nor the sacrifices made by generations of Americans to secure it and other rights. Some do, far too many do not. Political expediency will always trump freedom and rights, so long as the perceived outcome is the retention of political power. Citizens be damned. Since the inception of the Constitution, generations of politicians have funneled Americans in to a position of a reduction of Constitutional rights, certainly not the other way around. Expecting that trend to stop or reverse course, based on history and reality, is foolish in my opinion. NFA ownership very well could get relegated to history in a similar manner other landmark firearms restrictions already have. And like the others, once gone, gone for good.

[horseman234]

Below is a link to the proposed regulation. I'm not a lawyer, but this might be legal as they are not outlawing trusts, but ruling that fingerprints, photos, and background checks are required for the responsible person which would be the trustee. It may be gray area which the courts will have to decide.

We all know Obama hates the citizens being armed, so, in my opinion, this will probably happen.

http://www.reginfo.gov/public/do/eAg...&RIN=1140-AA43

[Armati]

Politics makes strange bedfellows. Obama might be surprised on how many ABA members would be opposed to changing any rules affecting trusts.

[davidjinks]

Lets say it does get shut down. Lets say the ATF comes out and says everyone who has NFA items through a trust has to go back through the process and re-do their paperwork/stamps.

What happens to the people who cannot get CLEO approval?

That's the only reason I went the trust route. My CLEO told me face to face that he will never sign off on this stuff.

What happens then?

[TriumphRat675]

This is old news. Nothing is getting shut down.

The NFA - the actual statute - lists "trusts" as one of the legal "persons" that can own NFA items. ATF can't change that, only Congress can.

Trusts, corporations, LLC's, and etc. - basically every "person" who is not an individual - currently does not have to have the trustees send in a photograph, get fingerprinted or have the local chief LEO sign-off on their application. These requirements, or lack thereof, are set by ATF regulation. ATF can change that if they want to after complying with certain rules governing the propounding of new regulations.

All this regulation will do is require each trustee (or other persons authorized to handle the NFA firearm) to send in photographs, get fingerprinted, and forward the application to their CLEO. The new regulation does not require the CLEO to give approval. It appears to be a notice requirement only.

ETA: Guys, for Pete's sake please read the linked text before getting all worked up about this.

The Department of Justice is proposing to amend the regulations of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) regarding the making or transferring of a firearm under the National Firearms Act. The proposed regulations would (1) add a definition for the term "responsible person"; (2) require each responsible person of a corporation, trust or legal entity to complete a specified form, and to submit photographs and fingerprints; (3) require that a copy of all applications to make or transfer a firearm be forwarded to the chief law enforcement officer (CLEO) of the locality in which the maker or transferee is located; and (4) eliminate the requirement for a certification signed by the CLEO.

[markm]

I know this is "old news"... but didn't Hussein appoint some new Thug to head up BATF???

There maybe a Chicago bred corrupt ****er nosing around and looking to overstep his authority now.

[TriumphRat675]

B. Todd Jones, acting director since Sept. 2011. Former Minnesota US Attorney.

Before they can rewrite the regulations, they have to give the public advance notice and solicit comments. Nothing will be changed in the dead of night.

[markm]

B. Todd Jones, acting director since Sept. 2011. Former Minnesota US Attorney.

I swear I though it was reported that Ali Bama was to appoint someone more corrupt to the job.