Red Dot vs. Bead vs. Ghost Ring, what is the consensus?

[Noodles]

We have been looking for ways to wean off the SF dedicated shotgun WML forends, as they are big, heavy, awkward, expensive, lacking modularity, and force you to use a specific light.

Damn right on that. Best move I made was to get right of the surefire from my Benelli. I wouldn't even consider one for the 870, way too heavy was my problem with them.

I'll check out the Cadex for my 870, but I might just attach a polymer pic rail to the "tactical" style handguard. A little methyl acrylate ought to keep that there well enough. It would be nice to mill it to fit well, I just don't like the magpul handguard but it would save some time!

[26 Inf]

I like the bead. Although, I have noticed those in my dept. that were not adept to shotguns before find the ghost rings much easier to use. So... It may just be the back woods hunter that likes the bead better. Everytime I go to qualify, I always try to find an old Wingmaster to use with the plain bead vs. the new Express SG with the ghost rings.

I'd be willing to bet the common tendency was that they shot high with the bead, that is a consequence of mounting the shotgun too low into the shoulder and not getting eye, rear sight plane/rib, bead alignment.

For fast accurate shots within 25 yards using buckshot, effective use of the bead on a standard police shotgun requires a proper mount of the shotgun into the shoulder. A lot of instructors don't quite grasp this, as a result they pass on advice such telling shooters that slugs rise so use a 1/2 bead hold, or shoot at the waist.

Don't get me wrong, I think there is a place for ghost rings, RDS, and even the gawdawful carbine sights that remington puts on barrels, but the shotgun is not a rifle, for use as a SHOTgun and close range rifle (within 50 yards) the bead is just fine.

[Dave Berryhill]

That Cadex light mount looks like a pretty solid, KISS method of mounting a flashlight. What I've always liked about the Surefire 870 mount was the position of the light at 6:00 but you guys are right about them being big and expensive. I don't care much for most of the mounts that put the light on the side of the fore end but that Cadex mount looks like it puts the light pretty high and close to the barrel. I'll have to give it a try.

[SeriousStudent]

Mr. Berryhill, have you had the opportunity to try one of the older Surefire shotgun lights, with the original Laser Products logo?

I've found them to be slimmer and easier to manipulate than the larger "modern" lights. They also work really well on illuminating a room, when you combine them with something like a Malkoff M61 LED. I get 200 lumens and a lot of flood. It will fill a room or most backyards.

That LED will also run about 2.5 hours on a fresh set of Surefire CR123's as well.

I have one of the larger Surefire 618 lights on a 870 Police Magnum, and do find it challenging. The older light seems to work quite well for me on a different testbed 870. They are also easy to track down on eBay for less that 200 dollars.

Just throwing that out there, and curious about your thoughts. I hope all is well for you, I am a very big fan of your 1911 work.

[Steve]

If you are shooting at hallway distances I think its hard to beat the speed and simplicity of a bead sight. If you stretch out to slug distances then obviously a ghost ring, or better yet, an RDS would be the way to go IMO.

Rci1911 I find iam just as fast or faster with a rds at even hallway distances

My handguns and carbines all have rds on them even at hallway distance whatever that is, 5 yards or 200 yards in some buildings I want an rds

[Steve]

The new Surefire shotgun list are freaking amazing. They make the current fury look weak, which it is not.

Tat said the team light mount as well as the mount from cdngear is very nice as well

[RWK]

So like the title reads, what is the general consensus on what is most effective? I have a Bushnell TRS-25 to test the concept on my Mossie 500 and I found that I'm slower to target than my 590 with a bead sight. I was going to replace the TRS with an aimpoint but now I'm having 2nd thoughts. Never used a ghost ring, so idk how that would work out.

These are defensive shotguns, not game guns, so any thoughts?

Why are you slower with the red dot? Are you having to chase the dot due to an inconsistent mount? Are you spending too much time trying to refine a sight picture with the dot?

[Dave Berryhill]

Mr. Berryhill, have you had the opportunity to try one of the older Surefire shotgun lights, with the original Laser Products logo?

Not a bad idea - it will match my old "Laser Products" pistol light for my P226, including the piece of inner tube to hold the tape switch to the grips.

Seriously though, that is a good idea for my personal gun. I'd also like to explore some other options for customer's guns and having something readily available is always a plus. When I get to Frisco this Summer, I'm going to be working on some different guns besides 1911s including shotguns.

What's the dealeo on those Don Lazzarini rear sights? Are they available for purchase? They look like the sight that I saw on an old 870 built at Gunsite. What type of sight is inside the protective ears?

When I attended the FBI's Firearms Instructor School many moons ago we learned how to use the groove on the top of the 870 receiver and the front pedestal/bead as a front and rear sight for shooting slugs. Once you figured out your dope it was pretty easy to hit a 12" gong at 100 yards. Remington doesn't add that groove to the Express models anymore, probably to save money.

I'll have to try a red dot sight on a shotgun. I prefer a ribbed barrel with a big front bead vs. ghost ring sights but a tactical 870 can get heavy very quickly. Add an extended mag tube, side saddle ammo carrier and a light and the next thing you need are wheels and a trailer hitch so you can tow it to the range!

[RWK]

Newer Remington police models can be had with express-style rifle sights. Remington calls them low-profile rifle sights. I got my hands on a barrel with these sights right after Remington announced them. I really like them.

Photos from Remington:

[SeriousStudent]

......

I'll have to try a red dot sight on a shotgun. I prefer a ribbed barrel with a big front bead vs. ghost ring sights but a tactical 870 can get heavy very quickly. Add an extended mag tube, side saddle ammo carrier and a light and the next thing you need are wheels and a trailer hitch so you can tow it to the range!

Sir, if you are ever in Texas, you are welcome to borrow one of mine for an eval. They are set up exactly that way. I'll even include the wheels and firing lanyard.

I've always viewed it similarly to how I looked at artillery. Heavy, not very fun to lug around, but highly effective when used in a direct-fire role. Like pointed at a locked bedroom door, from behind cover.

Thank you for your reply and your time.