Struggling on latest 308 Selection

[PatrioticDisorder]

I'm relating notes from the community.

Frankly I think most commercial users will find the SCAR-H a great platform. The price point is good -- accuracy is fair, and the weight is good. I'm not too keen on some of the ergonomics but that is me.

The biggest issue I have with the SCAR is on the Crane side - when in testing the accelometers gave nil result - and the decision was made that it was not needed to retest the SOPMOD M4 items on it, as they worked on the 'heavier recoiling systems'

In a programmatic acquisition standpoint the fact a 5-7k gun can ruin my 9-25k NV, that a non starter.

My other main bitch at the SCAR Program-wise is that to make it more palatable, they trashed the M4 SOPMOD, Mk11, Mk12, and Mk18 programs.
Which I would argue where most cost effective, as they where based on a service common platforms and thus cost the tax payer a lot less. One reason, for the MARSOC adopting of the M110K1 as their SOF Battle Rifle was it was a service common (M110) conversion. It gave them a 'free' (to SOF) M110, and they converted it into a Battle Rifle -- the Mk13 was then their sniper rifle.


I'm looking at this from my perspectives -- I've got no dog in the commercial gun owning fight.

Agree with all the above highlighted, hope no offense was taken other posters seemed to believe was meant.

[Iraqgunz]

A very blunt warning. Questioning is fine, but understand that if you are even hinting that he is being dishonest that ain't gonna happen.

I think the issues with SCAR's and optics has been mentioned and as another member mentioned military testing requirements and the "forum" aren't the same.

KevinB represents KAC, I'd love to actually see evidence by end users that are unbias, just saying.

[FlyingHunter]

Not to completely negate what you're saying, but as a member of that particular forum, it has been my observation that the skill, experience and real-world-usage levels in evidence there are typical of a hobby community, rather than a group of industry professionals, experienced trainers and service/contract users.

When you aren't shooting the gun all that much and/or aren't employing it in a particularly adverse environment, you are unlikely to reveal its shortcomings, whatever those might be, so I'm not at all surprised that we aren't seeing a lot of related feedback from the commercial market. For my part, I like the SCAR just fine, but have admittedly not carried one into harm's way, so my own experience base is limited at best.

AC

I've had zero issues with mine topped with a Leupold in an ADM mount. Perhaps due the the muzzle brake KevinB mentioned in his post above, when shooting my SCAR 17 from the front porch on our farm, it suddenly becomes clear I'm actually operating in a particularly adverse environment because my wife comes out telling me that thing is entirely too loud. I usually just say Huh? feigning the ear muff ploy - she's pretty smart, realizes their electronic ear pro, and I realize I'm finished shooting or risk operating in an even more adverse environment.

[SOW_0331]

I've been shooting that optic on my 16" CL MWS about every weekend since I bought them out to 500 yds. Besides the constantly shifting 30+ mph winds of the great plains, hitting 500 has been too easy.

Thanks for the input. Sounds like its worth at least trying out for a couple months. If I have any issues, I'll bug the hell outta ya

Seriously though, thank you. I don't post here much, but when I do it's nice to get solid responses.

[Littlelebowski]

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread...=132300&page=4

[The Count]

Dude if I could built 1 gun at KAC, it would be the K2...

What kind of accuracy reports are we looking at with the CHF barrels?

[JPB]

One reason, for the MARSOC adopting of the M110K1 as their SOF Battle Rifle was it was a service common (M110) conversion. It gave them a 'free' (to SOF) M110, and they converted it into a Battle Rifle -- the Mk13 was then their sniper rifle.

Is there a commercial equivalent the M110K1? I'd like to see this rifle. I've never seen the DoD running an SR25 in anything other than precision format.

ETA, It's essentially an ECC?

[JPB]

I think you just called that man's integrity in question, just sayin"

Way to passive aggressively question a man's integrity.

It sure is getting old to see this kind of response when someone points out the obvious non-transparency that results when one company rep show up on this site pushing their products over other products that have no such representation on this board. This is not an "integrity check" as I'm certain that Kevin honestly believes that the KAC product is the best on the market (as he should, and rightfully so). He is still a KAC rep (which is why he is an Industry Professional, oops, Senior Staff now), and it is hard to imagine that he will spend as much time outlining all the historical issues with SR25's prior DoD performance as he does the SCAR's. No debate is bias free. We all have opinions that are, in essence, biases based on personal experience.

I think that it's also fair to point out that no one here is claiming that either platform is "perfect", and that there have been issues and praises expressed by end users (SMEs) regarding both systems.

[Army Chief]

JPB,

I can certainly understand where it might seem that we have engaged in a bit of "piling-on," though I don't believe that was actually intended, and more importantly, it really had nothing to do with Kevin's affiliation with KAC.

Industry pros and SMEs are given a bit more deference here by design, and in reading Kevin's posts, I can see where he stated his opinion fairly openly; that said, he has also provided the rationale behind his thinking, and it does not (to me) seem to be motivated by his desire to push KAC product.

If you read what he wrote with an objective state of mind, I think you can glean the raw facts from the individual conclusions, but keep in mind that even those conclusions are based upon inside knowledge of the industry in general, and these programs in particular. For our part, no one is jumping to Kevin's defense because of an allegiance to one company or a bias against another; we were sounding a warning that non all opinions are created equal, and members need to carefully consider how they engage recognized experts, especially when offering largely anecdotal protests to the presentation of fairly objective facts.

In this case, it's not about KAC vs. FN. It's about addressing a potentially-contentious challenge to an IP, and if we had FN factory representation weighing in here (don't recall if we still have any of those folks on the rolls), they would be extended the very same courtesies.

AC

[PatrioticDisorder]

JPB,

I can certainly understand where it might seem that we have engaged in a bit of "piling-on," though I don't believe that was actually intended, and more importantly, it really had nothing to do with Kevin's affiliation with KAC.

Industry pros and SMEs are given a bit more deference here by design, and in reading Kevin's posts, I can see where he stated his opinion fairly openly; that said, he has also provided the rationale behind his thinking, and it does not (to me) seem to be motivated by his desire to push KAC product.

If you read what he wrote with an objective state of mind, I think you can glean the raw facts from the individual conclusions, but keep in mind that even those conclusions are based upon inside knowledge of the industry in general, and these programs in particular. For our part, no one is jumping to Kevin's defense because of an allegiance to one company or a bias against another; we were sounding a warning that non all opinions are created equal, and members need to carefully consider how they engage recognized experts, especially when offering largely anecdotal protests to the presentation of fairly objective facts.

In this case, it's not about KAC vs. FN. It's about addressing a potentially-contentious challenge to an IP, and if we had FN factory representation weighing in here (don't recall if we still have any of those folks on the rolls), they would be extended the very same courtesies.

AC

I agree, I have yet to see any cited sources on any issues, thus I do respectfully continue my assertion that the issue of the SCAR issuing optics is way over blown.

That said, you mentioned not all opinions are created equal. I admit I'm not a "subject matter expert" or "industry professional", just a firearms enthusiast. However, I do believe there is a lot of weight behind the opinions of these distinguished gentlemen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXiVFMRMchY