View Poll Results: What is your opinion of personal cosmetic touches on a defensive weapon?

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  • They will get you lynched in court - don't do it

    40 10.90%
  • They may add weight to the prosecution depending on the circumstances

    158 43.05%
  • Doubtful they would have any significance in court, but fellow enthusiast may ridicule them

    67 18.26%
  • It won't make any difference either way - do what you want

    102 27.79%
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Thread: The liability of graphics, engravings, and other personal cosmetic touches

  1. #1
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    The liability of graphics, engravings, and other personal cosmetic touches

    What is your opinion on cosmetically customized rifles? I'm not referring to any customization that serves a legitimate physical purpose, such as a fore grip, or any specific color scheme, including camouflage. What I am curious about is your opinion on the liabilities, if any, of adding personal touches to a weapon you may one day need to use for self defense - including graphics, emblems, and engravings. While it does not seem to be as prevalent here on M4C as some other groups (which may be what they call a "clue"), I have still seen numerous members customize their defensive rifles with things like Arabic graphics that say "infidel", "Molon Labe" scrawled across hand guards and butt stocks, punisher logos, engraved dust covers, and laser engraved sayings like, "Smile, wait for flash." Has anyone considered the potential liabilities of doing so?

    I'm personally considering adding a slight personal touch to a build I'm working on in the form of a laser engraved Bible verse in an inconspicuous area. I'm considering this both for the meaning of the verse as associated with the purpose of the rifle, and to easily identify it as mine without memorizing the serial number. It would be visible only if you tilted the rifle a certain way - similar to the placement of Noveske Chainsaw logos on their blemished products. If I ever had to use this rifle in self defense, what effect, if any, would this have on the odds of criminal charges being brought against me, and if they were, would it add any weight to the case?

    I'm very interested in hearing your thoughts and opinions on this matter. Is it a legal misstep? Would my rifle simply be pronounced as having a alternate sexual preference by some of the more die hard members here? Or would it not have any effect at all?

  2. #2
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    Mine has all sorts of random stuff on it. I couldnt care any less about the thoughts of what the guy next to me has on my rifle, or what my thoughts are on his. That is his, and mine is mine. So long as it doesnt inhibit the function, or weaken the integrity...I say go for it.
    Date: June 9, 1776
    Objects of the most stupendous magnitude, and measure in which the lives and liberties of millions yet unborn are intimately interested, are now before us. We are in the very midst of a revolution the most complete, unexpected and remarkable of any in the history of nations.

    http://m.ruvr.ru/data/2012/09/28/1287679312/4Military.jpg

  3. #3
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    If you plan on using your weapon for anything other than recreational shooting or use in a combat zone, you best think long and hard before adding any "social statements" to your weapons.

    http://www.armedcitizensnetwork.org/...arances-matter
    Last edited by Chorizo; 07-14-13 at 19:10.
    USMC, 21 years and 21 days. But who was counting?

  4. #4
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    Liability really only comes into play if the wrong person gets shot (either unintentionally, or if one intends to shoot someone who didn't need shooting). Will an engraving on a carbine affect the gun's reliability? No. But...

    Take our recent court case du jour. Suppose Zimmerman had a "Punisher" skull on the slide cover plate of his handgun, or "Infidel" written along the slide. It wouldn't matter one lick in court, but if there's any sort of race/ethnicity/foul play card to play, its not going to help any, especially that its now time for him to continue living his life in public.

    Again, for this to be a factor, you have to actually have a shooting, and have an investigating entity, prosecutor, or other party that will make the info public. You also need a media that will latch onto such things, and a public that's at a fever fitch over race relations, justice inequality, etc. Unlikely, I know...

    Personally, I'd make sure the quote is tasteful and, like you said, inconspicuous.
    The advice above is worth exactly what you paid for it.

  5. #5
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    It doesn't matter. The prosecution would probably try and use it to fuel an image they want to build of you. But they're going to do that anyway.

    Have pictures of guns on your Facebook or photo sharing page? You're a crazy gun nut.

    Have you sought out formal training? Then you are a wannabe killer trying to hone your craft.

    Haven't gotten any formal training at all? You're too incompetent to own firearms and it was only a matter of time before you killed someone.

    Browse gun message boards and pro-2A sites? You're a crazy racist anti-government militia type.

    That said, there are probably some things that would be looked down upon worse than others.
    "Man is still the first weapon of war" - Field Marshal Montgomery

    The Everyday Marksman

  6. #6
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    Not worth it to me. Especially on an AR, where an uneducated person already thinks it just a killing machine.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chorizo View Post
    If you plan on using your weapon for anything other than recreational shooting or use in a combat zone, you best think long and hard before adding any "social statements" to your weapons.

    http://www.armedcitizensnetwork.org/...arances-matter
    Thanks for the reply and the link. Interesting article, and I don't doubt the validity of the points made, but I'm not going to handicap myself with outdated technology - Sure you may be less likely to get prosecuted if you use a .38 Special and ball ammo, but you're also more likely to end up dead because those 6 shots didn't stop the attacker(s). I'll take my chances in court if it comes to that. But back on topic, I'm specifically asking about "social statements" (which is as good a name for them as anything) on an AR that may be utilized as a HD gun, not actual weapon or ammo choice. Just want to make that clear.

  8. #8
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    I don't think engravings on rifles are a good idea but I also do not seeing the engravings being a legal matter. If you don't already have them... don't do it. Just my opinion.

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    To each his own. Your gun is yours and you can customize it as you like. BUT, there is merit to the thought that it could come back to bite you. I, personally, would put nothing on a firearm that could in anyway be judged racial or bias. Rest in peace Kyle? Maybe! But there is a smartass lawyer out there who could make you a wannabe sniper because it wasn't a point blank shot and you were using a AR.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chameleox View Post
    Again, for this to be a factor, you have to actually have a shooting, and have an investigating entity, prosecutor, or other party that will make the info public. You also need a media that will latch onto such things, and a public that's at a fever fitch over race relations, justice inequality, etc. Unlikely, I know...
    Very unlikely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chameleox View Post
    Personally, I'd make sure the quote is tasteful and, like you said, inconspicuous.
    What I'm considering is a trigger guard with the following engraved on the underside:

    "Rescue the weak and the needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked." Psalm 82:4

    Not as menacing as the punisher logo, or as malicious sounding as "Smile, wait for flash" but it's still a personal touch. I'm sure someone could try to twist it to paint me in a bad light, I'm just wondering how successful they would be. Thoughts?

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