View Poll Results: What is your opinion of personal cosmetic touches on a defensive weapon?

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  • They will get you lynched in court - don't do it

    40 10.90%
  • They may add weight to the prosecution depending on the circumstances

    158 43.05%
  • Doubtful they would have any significance in court, but fellow enthusiast may ridicule them

    67 18.26%
  • It won't make any difference either way - do what you want

    102 27.79%
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Thread: The liability of graphics, engravings, and other personal cosmetic touches

  1. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
    I was a juror on a high profile case that lasted several weeks. The biggest thing I took away from the experience is the understanding of the business of putting people in jail.

    The state is not on your side. They will try to bring up anything that supports their case no matter how irrelevant and look to dismiss anything that heavily supports your defense if possible.

    I'm not sure about you but I know the state's legal fund is far larger than mine. I would separate any personal ideologies or feelings from my weapons because it will be scrutinized. Imo, its just not worth it. As long as you keep true to it, you don't need to advertise it.
    Yep, yep, yep and yep.

    And not only the stuff you have engraved on your rifle but the bumper stickers if any on your car and anything and everything you have ever posted on the internet. Or said to someone who might repeat it to a police detective. I know someone who was an investigator working for Angela Corey's office on the Zimmerman case. They looked for anything and everything they could find. Now Eric Holder is looking. Luckily for Zimmerman they found nothing. Zimmerman jurors indicated their verdict could have gone either way. A small piece of seeming meaningless evidence that rubs one juror the wrong way could change your life forever. And, no case law, no precedent, never happened before doesn't mean it can't happen to you.

  2. #112
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    +++1

    I think it is foolish to assume "a good shoot is a good shoot" and gun type, adornments, logos, "tactical items" will never come into play. Zimmerman should be a good lesson to us all. Often, it is not clear what is a good shoot or not and it often goes to either an investigator, a prosecutor or a jury to make the final call. They can and will look at a lot of stuff (including politics!) you may not have expected as they decide just who the bad guy was, and what a "reasonable" person may have felt or done in the circumstances. Does anyone think if Zimmerman had a "punnisher" gun that would not have become an issue at some level? One thing for sure, it wouldn't have helped.

    I believe we are in the middle of an all out cultural assault to try to demonize gun ownership. Schools are ending any reference, picture, or gesture related to firearms in any way. TV and movies demonize private ownership, gun business are losing leases and banking services, and local, state, and federal legislators are doing everything they can to get rid of firearms in general (non govt employees only, of course). I don't believe the lastest federal effort is over. I think we are still in the middle of it. Anyway, i think taking an extra cautious, even a bit paranoid approach to this topic seems wise, given everything that is happening. SD guns, clothing, lifestyle, etc should not give an overzealous prosecutor or a naive/activist juror anything to focus on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Suwannee Tim View Post
    Yep, yep, yep and yep.

    And not only the stuff you have engraved on your rifle but the bumper stickers if any on your car and anything and everything you have ever posted on the internet. Or said to someone who might repeat it to a police detective. I know someone who was an investigator working for Angela Corey's office on the Zimmerman case. They looked for anything and everything they could find. Now Eric Holder is looking. Luckily for Zimmerman they found nothing. Zimmerman jurors indicated their verdict could have gone either way. A small piece of seeming meaningless evidence that rubs one juror the wrong way could change your life forever. And, no case law, no precedent, never happened before doesn't mean it can't happen to you.

  3. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elessar View Post
    I believe we are in the middle of an all out cultural assault to try to demonize gun ownership. Schools are ending any reference, picture, or gesture related to firearms in any way. TV and movies demonize private ownership, gun business are losing leases and banking services, and local, state, and federal legislators are doing everything they can to get rid of firearms in general (non govt employees only, of course). I don't believe the lastest federal effort is over. I think we are still in the middle of it.
    Off topic, but in spite of this look at the feeding frenzy that has taken place over the last 7 or 8 months. I have a good number of friends who are now firearm owners who were not before "the panic", and are now fully active with the "cause" of RKBA and being an active part of keeping it...all because their eyes were opened that someone was actually trying to take it away (not sure where all those folks were in 1994, since they're all my age, and like me were in college then).

    Certainly there is a cultural shift taking place -- I fully agree that is true -- but it doesn't mean that everyone is buying it.
    Last edited by HackerF15E; 07-24-13 at 21:34.

  4. #114
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    You are right, and those are positive things. However, all the more reason to protect yourself against our political adversaries who might be in the justice system. To me it simply seems wise to not provide them any angles they could exploit to emotional or impressionable "non gun people" jury members. they will try whatever they can. Hell they tried to charge him under "child abuse" guidelines. The media changed his racial identity to fit their story. They doctored 911 tapes to poison public opinion and the jury pool. If he had anything they could have used to paint the "wanna be" or "looking for an excuse" picture, they would have. In fact, i believe they did. They even brought up him doing police ride alongs in the past. A scary tactical rig, a vest full of mags, violent or aggressive sayings or logos could have easily gotten him manslaughter at least.
    Last edited by Elessar; 07-24-13 at 22:10.

  5. #115
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    ^^^ Nice user name! ^^^

    Personally I don't much go for the engravings/attention getters; but it hasn't been for fear of political or prosecutionary fears .... previously, anyway.

    Do remember though that the DA was even using the fact that ol' Zimm kept a round chambered as evidence that he was a vigilante; so there is a level of "no bounds" in today's courtroom.

  6. #116
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    I'm like the Amish - Plain is beautiful...

  7. #117
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    I have the AF Combat Arms logo on my range rifle. Thats about it.


    I spent 20 years on a firing range before becoming a First Sergeant and riding desk. Call me a little nostalgic.

  8. #118
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    Low key is the way to be.

  9. #119
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    First, I will say I'm a prosecutor. Second, I will say I'm a second amendment advocate and a lover of eeeevil black rifles.

    In a legal sense I will say that whatever cosmetic or mechanical modifications are done to a firearm isn't going come into play whether I decline to prosecute because it was a good shoot or prosecute because a crime has been committed. If I decide to prosecute then I feel that ethically I should do everything in my power to secure a conviction. Its not a decision to take lightly and it deserves every effort. Yes, I would bring up any cosmetic modifications that show aggressiveness. You better believe the defense is going to trot out grandma to tell how her grand baby lives at the foot of the cross despite the fact that he put a round in his girlfriend's grape because she disrespected him and I'm going to counter that.

    On a personal level, I don't care how people decorate their rigs. Look at some of the rifles with magpul stickers, cool paint schemes, etc. Just know if I'm at a class and see you rocking patches and paint screaming how big of a badass you are despite the fact your wheezing on the first relay, look like 300 lbs of chewed bubblegum, and can't even bzo your rifle, I'm probably going to be snickering...on the inside.
    Last edited by STAMarine; 09-23-13 at 19:13.

  10. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by STAMarine View Post
    Just know if I'm at a class and see you rocking patches and paint screaming how big of a badass you are despite the fact your wheezing on the first relay, look like 300 lbs of chewed bubblegum, and can't even bzo your rifle, I'm probably going to be snickering...on the inside.
    Now THAT'S funny. :thumbup:


    Sent from my ZTE V768 using Tapatalk 2
    "People have always been stupid. The Internet just makes it easier for us to know about them." - donlapalma

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