View Poll Results: What is your opinion of personal cosmetic touches on a defensive weapon?

Voters
367. You may not vote on this poll
  • They will get you lynched in court - don't do it

    40 10.90%
  • They may add weight to the prosecution depending on the circumstances

    158 43.05%
  • Doubtful they would have any significance in court, but fellow enthusiast may ridicule them

    67 18.26%
  • It won't make any difference either way - do what you want

    102 27.79%
Page 13 of 14 FirstFirst ... 311121314 LastLast
Results 121 to 130 of 133

Thread: The liability of graphics, engravings, and other personal cosmetic touches

  1. #121
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Northeast Colorado
    Posts
    162
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by STAMarine View Post
    First, I will say I'm a prosecutor. Second, I will say I'm a second amendment advocate and a lover of eeeevil black rifles.

    In a legal sense I will say that whatever cosmetic or mechanical modifications are done to a firearm isn't going come into play whether I decline to prosecute because it was a good shoot or prosecute because a crime has been committed. If I decide to prosecute then I feel that ethically I should do everything in my power to secure a conviction. Its not a decision to take lightly and it deserves every effort. Yes, I would bring up any cosmetic modifications that show aggressiveness. You better believe the defense is going to trot out grandma to tell how her grand baby lives at the foot of the cross despite the fact that he put a round in his girlfriend's grape because she disrespected him and I'm going to counter that.
    I'm glad that you shared your perspective. Although I wish cosmetic touches weren't an issue (I'm not really into them but I really dig freedom), it's good to hear the answer straight from the horses mouth. Thanks.

    Levi
    "They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin


  2. #122
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Southwest VA
    Posts
    288
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by levik97 View Post
    I'm glad that you shared your perspective. Although I wish cosmetic touches weren't an issue (I'm not really into them but I really dig freedom), it's good to hear the answer straight from the horses mouth. Thanks.

    Levi
    I know where you're coming from with the freedom statement. I don't want to sound like a mod means a person is aggressive or a criminal. I'm just saying that no matter what the evidence is, emotion still plays a big part for a jury. Believe me, it would make my job so much easier if everything was black and white. I look at the facts to decide if it's a good case or not. The argument would just be a tool to counter the defense. How many people do we know that have tattoos that are great people? I have tattoos from my time in the Corps but you better believe I keep them covered at work. You also better believe I love a defendant that has tattoo sleeves and wears a t-shirt to trial. Doesn't have a thing to do with the facts of the case but it comes down to that emotional argument. Any attorney has to consider that.

    Another thing to consider is that I'm from a rural area, prior military, and believe in the right to bear arms. This is my perspective. Some prosecutors will look at you like a criminal if you own a firearm despite what the law and Constitution say. I hate to say it but there it is. Plan accordingly.

  3. #123
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Northeast Colorado
    Posts
    162
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by STAMarine View Post
    I know where you're coming from with the freedom statement. I don't want to sound like a mod means a person is aggressive or a criminal. I'm just saying that no matter what the evidence is, emotion still plays a big part for a jury. Believe me, it would make my job so much easier if everything was black and white. I look at the facts to decide if it's a good case or not. The argument would just be a tool to counter the defense. How many people do we know that have tattoos that are great people? I have tattoos from my time in the Corps but you better believe I keep them covered at work. You also better believe I love a defendant that has tattoo sleeves and wears a t-shirt to trial. Doesn't have a thing to do with the facts of the case but it comes down to that emotional argument. Any attorney has to consider that.

    Another thing to consider is that I'm from a rural area, prior military, and believe in the right to bear arms. This is my perspective. Some prosecutors will look at you like a criminal if you own a firearm despite what the law and Constitution say. I hate to say it but there it is. Plan accordingly.
    Oh don't get me wrong, I completely understood what you meant when you said that about using mods to prosecute. Your job is to prosecute someone. You do everything in your power to get the conviction. I have nothing against you or any other prosecutor for that. I just wish that it wasn't an issue. Anywhere. Period.

    Levi

    P.S. Thanks for your service.
    "They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin


  4. #124
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Southwest VA
    Posts
    288
    Feedback Score
    0

    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by levik97 View Post
    Oh don't get me wrong, I completely understood what you meant when you said that about using mods to prosecute. Your job is to prosecute someone. You do everything in your power to get the conviction. I have nothing against you or any other prosecutor for that. I just wish that it wasn't an issue. Anywhere. Period.

    Levi

    P.S. Thanks for your service.
    Oh I know what you meant. I just thought I may have needed to clarify myself some. I'd hate to come across as a guy who thought that a mod made the rifle and shooter evil on, you know, a forum dedicated to a love of said platform!

  5. #125
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    125
    Feedback Score
    0
    I'm not into it a bit. I generally think folks with that crap on their guns are typically douchey depending on what is on there and I am into guns. I can only imagine what juror whatever may think of it...

  6. #126
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    161
    Feedback Score
    0
    I'm the kind of guy that tinkers with all my stuff. It's just what I do. I've taken an oath to uphold the constitution of the United States of America I plan on engraving the flag and maybe "we the people" on my rifle when I get around to buying one. The flag has meaning to me. That being said I am also a huge punisher fan but would never put it on a firearm I own. I think without a doubt many cosmetic modifications can be used to sway the opinion of the jury. Think before you act.

  7. #127
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    655
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Chorizo View Post
    This.

    I would listen to the prosecutor that posted in here, what he said echoed the behavior of everyone in the last DA's office I worked in.

    Know your jurisdiction. I won't even apply to work in my new location because the current DA is so terrible.

    Those markings you just have to put all over your SD while they probably/possibly/hopefully won't make a difference in determining whether or not you were involved in a good shoot; they will more than likely be used against you in the event of a trial.

    I remember as an intern having an ADA run a case by me were it appeared just at a first run 50/50 whether or not it was a good shoot.(I would elaborate more, but in the event that it still may be an active case I am going to err on the side of caution). While waiting for a few pieces of crucial information to come back we tore apart the case, looking at every last detail, including his clothing, demeanor, sunglasses, weapons, statements to police officers...

    It ended up being a bad shoot, for many many reasons, none of which involving his gun, but several items he wore on his body did factor into the problem.

    Lawyers are (or should be at any rate) fact intensive people. Each and every fact is going to be used to win.

    The most important thing to remember goes along with what was already said. Prosecutors look at the case file and make a determination whether or not to prosecute...thats a pretty subjective standard.

    If you carry, I would get on one of those plans where you have a lawyer on retainer for $100 a year or something and discuss all of this stuff with them, they would be your best bet for information.

  8. #128
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    1,646
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)
    All other things being equal, it's not going to HELP you to have something that can be taken, misinterpreted, or twisted - such as "infidel", "rebel", "molon labe", or a symbol like the punisher skull, etc. If Zimmerman had something like that scripted on his Trayvon blaster, it would have only made it worse in the news and in court. However if it was a cosmetic decoration to honor something like a WWI or WWII commemorative pistol, or an inscription from your wife that says "I love you, may this always keep you safe", then I don't think that would have a negative effect.
    Ken Bloxton
    Skill > Gear

  9. #129
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    SE TX
    Posts
    24
    Feedback Score
    0
    From my point of view as a fairly new LEO-probably wont make a difference. I work with 150+cops-most of who have all sorts of aftermarket stuff. Alot of glock backplates. In TX A good shoot will be no billed and never go to trial.

    To myself "liability" conjures images of civil court. Where who knows what will happen. The DAs Ive encountered are reluctent to take charges on ex-cons, let alone a law abiding "grey man". You may however go to civil court regardless of the criminal outcome. But then again you could be accused of any one of the numerous civil torts.

    Emotional and unprepared statements will be more damning than your "infidel" dustcover.

  10. #130
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Hampton Roads, VA
    Posts
    254
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)
    Everyone concentrates on the criminal aspect of shooting someone in self defense. The resulting civil litigation seems to escape most people. What you put on your weapon will have bear much more weight in a civil courtroom.
    "Those who 'abjure' violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf."

Page 13 of 14 FirstFirst ... 311121314 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •