View Poll Results: What is your opinion of personal cosmetic touches on a defensive weapon?

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  • They will get you lynched in court - don't do it

    40 10.90%
  • They may add weight to the prosecution depending on the circumstances

    158 43.05%
  • Doubtful they would have any significance in court, but fellow enthusiast may ridicule them

    67 18.26%
  • It won't make any difference either way - do what you want

    102 27.79%
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Thread: The liability of graphics, engravings, and other personal cosmetic touches

  1. #41
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    Using a rifle outside of your home is very very unlikely. That said if it's a good shoot (clearly justified) you'll have nothing to worry about. Bad shoot (questionable) everything will be looked at.
    Chief Armorer for Elite Shooting Sports in Manassas VA
    Chief Armorer for Corp Arms (FFL 07-08/SOT 02)

  2. #42
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    I'm not into skulls, witty catch phrases, off-the-wall color schemes or anything like that. I like my guns to look professional and purpose built. Not knocking the next guy who likes to put all that on their guns, but it's not for me. WRT liability issues, I suppose it could be used to cast-type you in some sort of negative way if it came down to it.

  3. #43
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    I respectfully disagree.

    We're not talking about features or modifications that provide improved utility. NFA items increase utility in close confines (suppressors and shortened long guns). Standard capacity magazines provide extra ammo in the event of unanticipated variables, such as body armor or multiple attackers. In these cases, a defense attorney or you yourself can point to how the modification improved performance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    Can anyone point to any factual cases of Tea Party dust covers or Molon Labe pistol grips causing someone to end up in court for a 100% clean shooting? We have had these discussions numerous times in the past.

    It's same story when someone alleges that using an NFA weapon is going to land you in the big house. Or a high capacity magazine is proof intent to commit mass killings.

    I feel strongly that if it's a clean shoot and you keep your mouth shut then you have nothing to worry about. OTOH if you are cruising the ghetto looking for crack and tranny hookers and you shoot their transgender pimp for staring at you the wrong way, then yeah, you might have a problem.
    The point that many of us are trying to get across is not that having some inscription on your dust cover will turn a good shoot into a bad one. What I (and others) am/are trying to convey is that in the case of a legit shooting that has some sort of cross racial/ethnic/cultural factor, or if the shooting has the tiniest amount of gray area in it, and if your inscription has something about that other group or has vigilante tones, then it can be used to assassinate your character in court, or in society outside of the courtroom.

    Why make it easy for them? Make them work for it.
    Last edited by Chameleox; 07-15-13 at 08:48.
    The advice above is worth exactly what you paid for it.

  4. #44
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    It's like having a "Personalized" license tag on a vehicle.

    It makes you "That Guy"....

  5. #45
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    I believe under certain circumstances it could be used against you in court but unlikely. Keep it clean and justified and you will be alright. Not my cup of tea though.

  6. #46
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    I believe WHERE you are matters here too. Have clean shoot in a small Southern town where the sheriff has known you since you were a boy scout, and that "punisher" logo won't even be a factor. Have a 100% justifiable, self-defense shoot while legally carrying in Oakland, CA, with a "punisher" emblem on your gun and it will be like throwing gasoline on a fire. We can argue that there shouldn't be a "fire" all day long, but sadly, this is the way it is now. If the GZ case didn't convince you of this, nothing will.

    All of my SD and carry guns are BOX STOCK. I carry them that way, I practice with them that way, and I take my classes with them that way. Same with my defensive ammo. I use regular old off the shelf HPs from known and reputable companies.

    It is an undeniable FACT that in SOME circumstances, however rare or unlikely, having certain "personal touches" on your gun COULD lead to persecution, prosecution or conviction, where the "plain jane" gun will not give them any more "ammo" to use against you as they attempt to cast their lies and dispersions about your character and/or mindset.

    I'll be keeping my defensive weapons plain and unadorned.
    Last edited by Bulletdog; 07-15-13 at 10:04.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bulletdog View Post
    I believe WHERE you are matters here too. Have clean shoot in a small Southern town where the sheriff has known you since you were a boy scout, and that "punisher" logo won't even be a factor. Have a 100% justifiable, self-defense shoot while legally carrying in Oakland, CA, with a "punisher" emblem on your gun and it will be like throwing gasoline on a fire. We can argue that there shouldn't be a "fire" all day long, but sadly, this is the way it is now. If the GZ case didn't convince you of this, nothing will.

    All of my SD and carry guns are BOX STOCK. I carry them that way, I practice with them that way, and I take my classes with them that way. Same with my defensive ammo. I use regular old off the shelf HPs from known and reputable companies.

    It is an undeniable FACT that in SOME circumstances, however rare or unlikely, having certain "personal touches" on your gun COULD lead to persecution, prosecution or conviction, where the "plain jane" gun will not give them any more "ammo" to use against you as they attempt to cast their lies and dispersions about your character and/or mindset.

    I'll be keeping my defensive weapons plain and unadorned.
    How do you carry in California?
    "I never learned from a man who agreed with me." Robert A. Heinlein

  8. #48
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    If the wisest course of action is to be the "invisible man," and we acknowledge that anything we say or do can be used against us in court, then I would think the wisdom of keeping things fairly sterile would be self-evident. These kinds of self-expression questions never have definitive answers, and only serve to polarize the "in your face" crowd from the cautious and contemplative.

    Whether or not there is case law to back it up, I think there is a difference between purposeful customization/configuration and the inclusion of decorative statements or themes. I can defend a light and a sling. Take me down the path of why I chose to permanently inscribe "Punisher" or some-such on my rifle, and you're taking me someplace that I really don't want to go, because that makes it about me as a person, rather than the facts of the case.

    If it's aggressive, you're a premeditated killer. If it's humorous, you're indifferent to human life. If it's religious, you're a right-wing extremist looking for his holy war. If it's obscure, you're an odd, brooding sociopath. If it's zombie-related, you're delusional and unstable. If it's historical, you're anti-government and probably racist. If it's macabre, you're a psychopath and a satanist. Basically, about the only thing I think you can get away with safely is a service-related shield or crest ... but then you have PTSD. Remember, a thing needn't be true, or even steeped in reality, for it to impact a jury's impression of who you are, and what your state of mind must have been.

    Why give them anything to go on at all?

    AC
    Stand your ground; don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here. -- Captain John Parker, Lexington, 1775.

  9. #49
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    I would not add anything that might be used against me in court or by mudslingers. JMO.. Ron
    Ain't no pockets on a shroud..

  10. #50
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    Re: The liability of graphics, engravings, and other personal cosmetic touches

    AC, my thoughts to a "T".

    I'll add that it's kind of a bummer that in light of our current society, this is the way we must think to protect us and ours.

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
    Last edited by .46caliber; 07-15-13 at 10:59.

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