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  1. #51
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    Re: new to the page

    Quote Originally Posted by signkutter View Post
    From what I understand Colts Technical Data Package sets the metric for MilSpec. From the description of PSA premium Carbines, they conform to Milspec testing ,
    Yup.
    Heard that one before too.
    Lots of claims from lots of companies, very few actually deliver. There are those that have proven it with years of consistency and those that claim/infer it from small sample sizes.

    This has been beat to death enough several times in the past.

    Maybe PSA will gain the market trust that Colt has, but there are a lot of rifles between here and there.



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  2. #52
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    I like the PSA carbine I got but I question their current practice of offering Blackhawk parts.

    No one uses Colt's TDP but Colt and you can believe they guard it jealously so no other company can take their government contracts away. I worked for a contract company that maintained AH64 helicopters for the Army. Everything they did was according to the TDP which that company wrote. Even the smallest safety procedure was proprietary information. The TDP isn't the contract, the TDP details how the company meets the contract requirements, including any deviations from the contract the Army and the company agree to.

    The bottom line is that while other top notch companies meet the mil-spec, they don't build rifles to Colt's TDP because Colt doesn't share the TDP with anyone but the government. If they do have a TDP, it's their own and that is kept between them and the government and/or government contractor they subcontract for
    Last edited by MistWolf; 08-06-13 at 01:33.
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  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by signkutter View Post
    Been done. There quite a few owner posts and factory torture tests that claim upto 20 k rounds. I dont own a PSA AR yet but I will in about a month, you
    supply the ammo
    and I supply the trigger finger...
    Don't hold your breath waiting on that.

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  4. #54
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    Once again opinions based upon "I purchased it so it must be good" and not facts. I don't doubt that PSA has some quality parts and that their FN barrels are good. But they have had some issues with their gas port sizes (consistency) and their BCG offerings. As F2S stated they have a long way to go and unless World War Z happens next week, I doubt they will be combat proven anytime soon.



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  5. #55
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    The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
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  6. #56
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    Re: new to the page

    Quote Originally Posted by VIP3R 237 View Post
    The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
    Words to live by...


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  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by MistWolf View Post
    I like the PSA carbine I got but I question their current practice of offering Blackhawk parts.

    No one uses Colt's TDP but Colt and you can believe they guard it jealously so no other company can take their government contracts away. I worked for a contract company that maintained AH64 helicopters for the Army. Everything they did was according to the TDP which that company wrote. Even the smallest safety procedure was proprietary information. The TDP isn't the contract, the TDP details how the company meets the contract requirements, including any deviations from the contract the Army and the company agree to.

    The bottom line is that while other top notch companies meet the mil-spec, they don't build rifles to Colt's TDP because Colt doesn't share the TDP with anyone but the government. If they do have a TDP, it's their own and that is kept between them and the government and/or government contractor they subcontract for
    Colt no longer has the contract with the government. FN outbid them. Seems like the M4 TPD design was not so exceptional if Remington and FN were able to develope their own TPD , calculate cost and submit a bid to supply hundreds of thousands of rifles on par with Colt quality at less cost.

    FN outbid both Colt and Remington to win the $77 million contract to supply the Army with 120,000 M4 Carbines and M4A1 Carbines.

    Remington orginally won the contract but Colt filed protests with the U.S. Government Accountability Office. The contact went back out to tender and this time FN came out ahead.
    I have taken apart and maintained many a Colt M-4 ( As a Firearms instructor I help maintain over 100 Agency M-4's) and compared them to BCM rifles and found that the BCM rifles were of better quality in the trigger assembly and springs and BCG.. also the overall finish on the exterior of the rifle was superior.

    The TBD that Colt follows isnt a beat all standard nor is it infallible. ..Manufactures do not need a detailed step by step Colt process in order build an equal or superior weapon. As far as ISO certification is concerned ... a plastic spoon company can attain it.

    The government certainly did not consider the quality provided by Colt to be anything special and frankly neither do I, while Colt certainly makes a solid basic rifle they are by no means without defect. I have a latest shipment of M-4's in my Agencies Armory and out of 27 new weapons 3 wont fire on FA and 1 fails to chamber rounds consistently in SA.

    PSA does not have the track record Colt does... granted. This fact alone does not deter me from purchasing a PSA rifle because I have seen them operate.. I have inspected their component parts and fired enough of their rifles to take a chance on them.
    Last edited by signkutter; 08-06-13 at 17:13.

  8. #58
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    Once again someone has proven that they don't know what they don't know.

    Quote Originally Posted by signkutter View Post
    Colt no longer has the contract with the government. FN outbid them. Seems like the M4 TPD design was not so top secret after all if Remington and FN had enough detailed knowledge to be able calculate cost and submit a bid to supply hundreds of thousands of rifles on par with Colt quality.



    I have taken apart and maintained many an M-4 ( more than most will) and compared them to BCM rifles and found that the BCM rifles were of better quality quality in the trigger assembly and springs.. also the overall finish on the exterior of the rifle was superior.

    Fit and finish means ZERO. In addition the Colt LPKs are way better in quality. Just look at the disconnector for example. They are made completely different.

    The TBD that Colt follows isnt a beat all standard nor is it infallible. ..Manufactures do not need a detailed step by step Colt process in order build an equal or superior weapon. As far as ISO certification is concerned ... a plastic spoon company can attain it.

    Interesting, I would love to hear how you reached this conclusion.

    The government certainly did not consider the quality provided by Colt to be anything special and frankly neither do I, while Colt certainly makes a solid basic rifle but they are by no means without defect. I have a latest shipment of M-4's in my Agencies Armory and out of 27 new weapons 4 wont fire on FA and 1 fails to chamber rounds consistently in SA.

    The government looked at the total cost of the contract and the companies that bid stated they could make it for that price to the specs. They will be provided the TDP in order to ensure that they are indeed meeting the standard and they will be scrutinized by gov't inspectors.

    PSA does not have the track record Colt does... granted. This fact alone does not deter me from purchasing a PSA rifle because I have seen them operate.. I have inspected their component parts and fired enough of their rifles to take a chance on them.
    Have you examined their gasports to see if they are consistent and within spec across the board. And if you don't think it matters then I will suggest you are seriously confused.



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  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    Once again opinions based upon "I purchased it so it must be good" and not facts. I don't doubt that PSA has some quality parts and that their FN barrels are good. But they have had some issues with their gas port sizes (consistency) and their BCG offerings. As F2S stated they have a long way to go and unless World War Z happens next week, I doubt they will be combat proven anytime soon.
    I didnt purchase the weapon because I needed to validate it for some wierd reason. I purchased it because I found it to be priced well for a quality weapon. I will readily admit that I will change out the grip, trigger springs and maybe the stock because I find the quality of those components lacking. But that is small stuff , easily and cheaply replaced. I have noo need for another AR platform 5.56... but i cant turn down a great deal deal when I see it.
    Last edited by signkutter; 08-06-13 at 18:28.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by wetidlerjr View Post
    Don't hold your breath waiting on that.
    I wont if you dont.

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