Page 5 of 12 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 114

Thread: A definitive article that says it all?

  1. #41
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    5,795
    Feedback Score
    0
    I stopped doing that years ago on forums. Unless on a range or that topic comes up, I refer them here and invite them to conduct their own research. Normally when they start to defend their substandard purchase, I ask them to disassemble their weapon, comparing it with my own, then go through and show/explain all the failings of that manufacturer. That usually opens some minds, but in the end, anyone who buys cheap is normally a satisfied customer, and won't be deterred unless a major failure or two occurs. If they're still unconvinced, I ask them to take it to a 3 day carbine course and invite them to let us know what happened. They then baulk at the price, walk off extremely butt hurt, then return to their own reality of 'it's good enough or as good as yours".

    The conversations normally start with someone asking what type of gun I have, is it a stag, rra, etc...Then goes quickly downhill when I let them know what I'm using, and that I don't do commercial grade guns. The GP & guys who build frankenguns have been brainwashed into thinking all ARs are the same, so unless I'm specifically asked or I see a gun malfunction, I make a recommendation, then try to keep my opinions to myself.
    For God and the soldier we adore, In time of danger, not before! The danger passed, and all things righted, God is forgotten and the soldier slighted." - Rudyard Kipling

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    255
    Feedback Score
    0
    At work I deal with Colt and FN AR's. I see a small amount of police AR's of various manufacture as well.

    I have seen more than 1.5 million rounds fired over a one year period through about 100 Colt M4's and M4A1's. I witnessed numerous stoppages but no breakages. The stoppages were caused by the usual suspects, bad magazines and lack of lubrication. This experience alone (re)sealed the deal for me.

    I have trigger time on Colt's since 1975. I've seen them used and abused in ways that would set your hair on fire. I've personally burned one in from about 100 feet up. I've seen them used as ladders, run over by vehicles, blown up, burned, dropped down the side of mountains, and the list goes on. I even know of a jack wagon that took all the BCG's out of all the AR's in the arms room, took them apart and buried half and threw the other half in the dumpster as some weird form of revenge. You can bet none of the BCG's and bolt's were ever reunited with their original guns.

    It may not be scientific but this is my experience with the Colt AR. I would proudly own BCM, DD, Noveske, etc. But I can honestly say that Colt is my go to gun because of almost 40 years of positive experience.

    I do not believe in "good as" or "made by the lowest bidder" arguments.



    .

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    16,090
    Feedback Score
    5 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by RogerinTPA View Post
    I stopped doing that years ago on forums. Unless on a range or that topic comes up, I refer them here and invite them to conduct their own research. Normally when they start to defend their substandard purchase, I ask them to disassemble their weapon, comparing it with my own, then go through and show/explain all the failings of that manufacturer. That usually opens some minds, but in the end, anyone who buys cheap is normally a satisfied customer, and won't be deterred unless a major failure or two occurs. If they're still unconvinced, I ask them to take it to a 3 day carbine course and invite them to let us know what happened. They then baulk at the price, walk off extremely butt hurt, then return to their own reality of 'it's good enough or as good as yours".

    The conversations normally start with someone asking what type of gun I have, is it a stag, rra, etc...Then goes quickly downhill when I let them know what I'm using, and that I don't do commercial grade guns. The GP & guys who build frankenguns have been brainwashed into thinking all ARs are the same, so unless I'm specifically asked or I see a gun malfunction, I make a recommendation, then try to keep my opinions to myself.
    They tend to be of the same brainless ilk who will tell you Taurus 1911s are just as good as a Wilson, or that Bose is a high end speaker manufacturer. You can lead a horse, and all that.
    - Will

    General Performance/Fitness Advice for all

    www.BrinkZone.com


    “Those who do not view armed self defense as a basic human right, ignore the mass graves of those who died on their knees at the hands of tyrants.”

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Where The Wind Never Blows, Wyoming
    Posts
    1,956
    Feedback Score
    4 (100%)
    I quit trying to explain to people on what they should start with. It's just not worth it to me. The usual questions come up.

    Them: Well, what do you use?
    Me: I use a Colt and a BCM.

    Them: Why?
    Me: Because I like them.

    Them: That's it?
    Me: Yes, that's it.

    Them: How much are they?
    Me: $1200 a pop.

    Them: That's quite a lot of money.
    Me: Yes, it is, but it's cheap life insurance.

    Them: Well, aren't there some other brands that are almost as good for less money?
    Me: I don't know. I don't use the other brands. You can check out M4Carbine.net. They have a lot of good info on ARs. Have a nice day.

    See how easy it is?

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Buckeye Country
    Posts
    413
    Feedback Score
    7 (100%)
    I just don't let it bother me. If you're too lazy to research it then you obviously don't care about what you're buying. I don't care if it's firearms, car parts, or a dish washer. The days of over engineering are long gone. Most everything is built to a cost and not a spec or standard. If I'm spending money on something, I'm going to buy the product with the best reputation and the one that is built to a spec. Simple as that.
    Not sure about you guys, but I'm only here for the free food and open bar.

    Certified Smith & Wesson M&P Armorer
    Certified Glock Armorer

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    335
    Feedback Score
    0
    I got back into ARs just a few years ago and was in the only AR I've ever known was a constantly malfunctioning BM boat. Before I came back to them I did alot of reading and I didn't want to go full tilt for another POS. PSA was recommended and I'm glad I got back into ARs. Since then I've had a few friends and family ask me about ARs, more since the great gun grab. I've still got a PSA and now a BCM. For a starter, PSA is as low as I would go. The thread "Took a chance on PSA"https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=108867 had a recent poster say he's got 22,000 rounds through his.

    That being said my new BCM is much better on the fit and finish and would recommend them first. As for BM, Whindam, Delton, or any other company besides Colt I say no, bad idea. Why buy them when for less you can get a PSA. Hell, you can get a BCM or Colt for the same price or for just a little more than BM? I then send them here.
    Appeasement is never the answer in the face of naked aggression.

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    XXX
    Posts
    1,851
    Feedback Score
    0
    Still looking for the list? Here is an old one. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...8&postcount=79

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    13
    Feedback Score
    0
    I try to avoid this topic when people ask just to avoid getting a headache. If they persist, I will try to ask some questions of them to gauge their desire/ability to listen to other's opinions.

    That being said, with my part-time job I do get to see a variety of ARs in action during training courses. I am not one of the national level instructors and don't claim their experience level. However, by working as in instructor for my state's municipal police training organization, I do see a fair number of rounds fired downrange in courses. I also see a variety of rifles used because students in these classes come from the hundreds of cities/town police department and bring what their agency issues. Almost all rifles used in these courses are AR based. Our most recent class saw 38 students with 34 types of ARs used. During that class, approximately 32,000 rounds were fired by the trainees.

    I have seen most of the big name manufacturers in class and feel safe commenting on my experience/observations. The biggest issues seen are, Surprise - magazines and maintenance. I have seen trainees come to class with magazines made before some of the cops were born. I have seen and had to stop trainees from stretching magazine springs which they felt had lost their "ommph". I have also seen more than a few AR which were bone dry. I have been told by the officers using these ARs that their armorer told them "oil attracts dirt" and/or other old wives tails. I have also learned that some police departments have armorers who feel a clean and lube only needs to be done every 8-10 years. Under these conditions, it is surprising that any of these ARs make it few a full mag without burping.

    The various Colts I have seen over the years have the best track record. Generally, any malfunctions with the Colts are magazine (old and dented) or maintenance related (never cleaned in a decade and/or bone dry). I have seen dozens of military surplus Colt made M-16A1s taken out of the box the day before the class, lubed, and then used without issue. The only Colt we had a problem with was one where the front sight assembly was canted and caused big issues when zeroing.

    The biggest offenders have been Bushmasters and Stag (we have had others like RRA, Wyndham, Spikes, etc but not in any large quantities to notice). With Bushmaster, we have seen gas keys which came loose and castle nuts backing off on more than a few. Hell, our state police tactical team had something like half of their new Bushmasters have problems right out of the box years back. I believe they switched to Colt after that debacle but may be going with another brand (SW?).

    The Stags which have had problems that I observed were barrel/chamber related. Generally, this is noticed during hot weather when doing rapid/multi shot drills while firing actual 5.56 ammo. I don't think the Stag chambers are actually 5.56 (I have heard this same comment from others who have used Ned's 5.56 chamber reamer on Stag barrels). Under these conditions, I have seen some Stags suffer ammunition pressure related malfunctions. These same rifles worked better when fed .223 SAAMI spec ammo. I have also seen some Stags which have had small parts breakage in the fire control group - one which was reportedly only a few months old and barely used but which started to double during zeroing on day one of the class.

    As stated above, we have seen other AR brands like Wyndham, Spikes, H&K, Sig, and Ruger but not in the same quantities as Colt, Stag, Bushmaster. One surprise I forgot to mention is that we also have a good number of S&W rifles come through the classes - mostly M&P15-T models and the Magpul models. I don't remember any issues with the S&Ws that weren't mag or lube related except for one of the old T models whose gas block screws came loose and caused cycling issues.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    24
    Feedback Score
    0
    See my response to your butthurt in red:


    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    You have no idea what you are talking about. Using the unstaked castle nut as some kind of "positive" attribute is ridiculous.

    Whatever. If you can't stake your own castle nut, then you shouldn't own anything that requires even a smidgeon of mechanical ability.

    The shortcomings with WW, BM, DPMS, etc... has all been SPELLED OUT numerous times before. Don't expect us to spoon feed it to you.

    Don't really care. It goes bang every time I pull the trigger.

    You also don't know what you are talking about in regards to bidding/lowest bidders and meeting the requirements that are specified.

    I was in the military and I work for a military contractor. Now it's up to you to prove I don't.

    The union thing has ZERO relevance and is nothing more than a feeble attempt to argue without merits.

    Pfffff...that comment reeks of a feeble attempt to defend a product made by a group of socialist thugs that support a president that would just soon have you and I disarmed. You think those fools have any more pride in their product that the thugs over on the GM lines? They care about their pockets.

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Vegas
    Posts
    6,717
    Feedback Score
    5 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by xwarp View Post
    See my response to your butthurt in red:

    Oh but I do, now it's up to you to prove I don't. I was in the military and I work for a military contractor. Now it's up to you to prove I don't.
    That's not how proof works.

    If I say "unicorns don't exist" and you simply say "Oh but they do, now it's up to you to prove that they don't" is just retarded.
    "I never learned from a man who agreed with me." Robert A. Heinlein

Page 5 of 12 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •