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Thread: Finally got to see a Troy rifle.

  1. #31
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    S&W is GTG. I ran one for a long time

  2. #32
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    The resolution of all of the pictures doesn't allow proper critic of the stake job IMO. As long as the metal is forced into the serrations of the cap screw it should be fine. Why do you need more than what it takes to keep the cap screw from backing out? What forces are trying to unscrew the screw? Why should metal be displaced more than necessary to stop the screw from backing out? I am sure this will piss off some here but I'll chalk up this thread as a Troy/ Dick's witch hunt. GH

  3. #33
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    This is a great example of what happens when someone thinks that one punch of a spring loaded center punch will do the job. Someone on the line was told to hit the BCG with it on either side of the screws...and believes they did their job correctly.

    It's also evidence of the downside of having a bunch of customers who saw the chart, but never did the research to understand why certain things mattered...they now know enough to know that a BCG should be staked, and will pull out the bolt carrier to see that some metal was moved and say "yep, it's staked and looks like an M16 carrier."

    Many parts of commercial grade weapons are getting the chart window dressing...even in it's absence. Barrels and bolts are being MPI'd without being HP tested first, or have all the right testing without being shot peened which is probably more important anyway. Or often they're stamped 1/7 when they're not...or stamped 5.56 when they're not. I'm just surprised that there isn't an epidemic of F marked front sight bases that are too short requiring the old Bushmaster tall front sight.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by GH41 View Post
    The resolution of all of the pictures doesn't allow proper critic of the stake job IMO. As long as the metal is forced into the serrations of the cap screw it should be fine. Why do you need more than what it takes to keep the cap screw from backing out? What forces are trying to unscrew the screw? Why should metal be displaced more than necessary to stop the screw from backing out? I am sure this will piss off some here but I'll chalk up this thread as a Troy/ Dick's witch hunt. GH
    With respect, perhaps my screen has higher resolution than yours, but it's obvious that no metal is touching the knurling...in fact no metal is displaced into that area at all. You're right that proper staking doesn't require a MOACKS and that people get carried away...but I'm confident that's not what is being pictured.

  5. #35
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    The screws can loosen over time (and will if not done correctly) when shooting. The carrier moves back and forth in the upper and impacts a steel barrel extension. They will loosen, that's a fact. Although the staking "appears" to be good many times they are not.

    Ask anyone who has been to my class and watch me break loose and remove the carrier key screws with no little effort. If the screws can loosen that's all it needs to break the seal between the key and the carrier body.

    Quote Originally Posted by GH41 View Post
    The resolution of all of the pictures doesn't allow proper critic of the stake job IMO. As long as the metal is forced into the serrations of the cap screw it should be fine. Why do you need more than what it takes to keep the cap screw from backing out? What forces are trying to unscrew the screw? Why should metal be displaced more than necessary to stop the screw from backing out? I am sure this will piss off some here but I'll chalk up this thread as a Troy/ Dick's witch hunt. GH



    Owner/Instructor at Semper Paratus Arms

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  6. #36
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    I've had minor quality or finish issues from well regarded manufacturers (LMT, BCM, and Noveske). What did I do? throw them in the trash? Bash them on the internet?

    No, I shot them and if anything became a real issue I fixed or replaced the part.

    I've read before that Grant will do his own QA/QC inspections and make shop improvements (stake, etc) before sending to customers.

    Shot it, fix it, learn, and move on.
    "I knew it was a mistake to issue weapons. We're a government department not a paramilitary unit!" - Barry (Bad Taste)
    "The headshot's the only true stopper." - Derek (Bad Taste)

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    The screws can loosen over time (and will if not done correctly) when shooting. The carrier moves back and forth in the upper and impacts a steel barrel extension. They will loosen, that's a fact. Although the staking "appears" to be good many times they are not.

    Ask anyone who has been to my class and watch me break loose and remove the carrier key screws with no little effort. If the screws can loosen that's all it needs to break the seal between the key and the carrier body.
    IG, you are probably the last person here I want to argue with. I just don't understand why the stake needs to do more than offer a slight resistance to keep the cap screw from rotating. I understand the forces involved but none of them are trying to rotate the cap screw. No matter how light the interference is between the carrier and key bolt is it serves the same purpose. It just prevents the bolt from turning. Using a wrench to back out the cap screw easily really means nothing. We could shoot a million rounds through a rifle and never apply any rotational force to the screws. If the stake in the OP's pictures doesn't contact the screws it is a problem. If is does no matter how lightly I don't see the liability. GH

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdbse View Post
    I've had minor quality or finish issues from well regarded manufacturers (LMT, BCM, and Noveske). What did I do? throw them in the trash? Bash them on the internet?

    No, I shot them and if anything became a real issue I fixed or replaced the part.

    I've read before that Grant will do his own QA/QC inspections and make shop improvements (stake, etc) before sending to customers.

    Shot it, fix it, learn, and move on.

    If it was one carrier I'd say its an over-reaction to a simple QC slip. But it's not just one carrier, it's every one of them I've seen so far.
    "Remember, if it doesn't violate the BYU Honor Code, it's not worth doing"
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  9. #39
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    This is incorrect. We had a Noveske BCG in my San Diego class just about 1 month ago. It appeared to be staked and was making some contact but not enough. YMMV.

    If have seen stakings that "appeared" to be correct and touching the screw yet it fact they would not prevent the movement.

    Quote Originally Posted by GH41 View Post
    IG, you are probably the last person here I want to argue with. I just don't understand why the stake needs to do more than offer a slight resistance to keep the cap screw from rotating. I understand the forces involved but none of them are trying to rotate the cap screw. No matter how light the interference is between the carrier and key bolt is it serves the same purpose. It just prevents the bolt from turning. Using a wrench to back out the cap screw easily really means nothing. We could shoot a million rounds through a rifle and never apply any rotational force to the screws. If the stake in the OP's pictures doesn't contact the screws it is a problem. If is does no matter how lightly I don't see the liability. GH



    Owner/Instructor at Semper Paratus Arms

    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SemperParatusArms/

    Semper Paratus Arms AR15 Armorer Course http://www.semperparatusarms.com/cou...-registration/

    M4C Misc. Training and Course Announcements- http://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=141

    Master Armorer/R&D at SIONICS Weapon Systems- http://sionicsweaponsystems.com

  10. #40
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    Troy should stick to accessories. I've seen DPMS with better staking jobs.
    Not sure about you guys, but I'm only here for the free food and open bar.

    Certified Smith & Wesson M&P Armorer
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